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  1. #21
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    It's hard for me to lump ExFJ's together with ExTJ's beyond a superficial level. If I have communication problems with one of these types it is usually dependend on whether they are T or F.

    ExFJ's are empathetic and tend to be good listeners, which is often not the case for some ExTJ's. On the other hand ExTJ's are pragmatic and don't take things personally, which is not always true for ExFJ's. I think there are different issues here.
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  2. #22
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    On the ETJ side of things, the issue stems from clarity.

    As ETJ's, we have a tendency to hold everyone to the standards we hold ourselves to. This often backfires on us, especially in social situations.

    We don't like being out of our element (which is serious academic or fiscal business). Unfortunately, the skills required in one's personal life often do not overlap with those skills required in one's business life.

    We take our no frills conversational attitude, and apply it to social situations wherein frivolity and small talk are the norm. Nothing good comes from this because, the tools we utilize make us give off an aura of not to be messed with, takes self too seriously, cold hearted, and often times over bearing. Everyone else sees these tools used and (as someone has already said) takes the motivation they would need to employ similar tactics and applies this motivation to the ETJ.

    This assumption of ill intentions couldn't be further from the truth. The ETJ does not use these tools out of malice, they use them because they are the only tools in their toolbox. Often, I've been in social situations and felt awkward, unappreciated, anxious, etc. etc. However, I manifest these feelings through Te and get unfortunate results.

    As the ETJ ages, they must continuously try to expand their awareness of themselves. If they don't, they can become self absorbed, and never end up developing the skills to soften their image.

    What has worked for me, is trying to truly develop powerful listening skills. My desire to help people with their problems aids in this. Listening, is the first step to empathy, and if both parties are really listening to each other, most problems nip themselves in the bud.

    When speaking with an ENTJ, say what you mean and mean what you say. Don't mince words, don't hide your motivations, and don't assume they can read your mind. We don't always have the skills needed to decipher social encryption.

    There is such a thing as emotional logic and boy is it beautiful and sexy as hell when it is properly deployed .

    As an ETJ talking to someone else, just listen. And keep listening UNTIL THEY ARE FINISHED SPEAKING (I'm still a little bad about this but getting better). Most of our communications issues arise when we get impatient and jump to the end of the conversation to quickly, assuming many intermediate details which may or may not be true.

    I don't know if this is on the right track concerning what OP was asking but I hope it helps!!!

  3. #23
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I prefer not to, in other words...

    I let them do the talking and speak as minimally as possible.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

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  4. #24
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    On the ETJ side of things, the issue stems from clarity.

    We don't like being out of our element (which is serious academic or fiscal business). Unfortunately, the skills required in one's personal life often do not overlap with those skills required in one's business life.

    We take our no frills conversational attitude, and apply it to social situations wherein frivolity and small talk are the norm.
    This assumption of ill intentions couldn't be further from the truth. Often, I've been in social situations and felt awkward, unappreciated, anxious, etc. etc.


    When speaking with an ENTJ, say what you mean and mean what you say. Don't mince words, don't hide your motivations, and don't assume they can read your mind. We don't always have the skills needed to decipher social encryption.
    This is really good advice, people.

  5. #25
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    In my experience, they tend to be relatively crappy listeners.

    Word to the wise, never give an ETJ advice, especially of the romantic kind.

    :horor:
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

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  6. #26
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    In my experience, they tend to be relatively crappy listeners.

    Word to the wise, never give an ETJ advice, especially of the romantic kind.

    :horor:
    Nah.

    My wife is an ENTJ. She's quite receptive to all sorts of romantic counsel.

  7. #27
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    She must respect you and your opinions immensely.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  8. #28
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    ExFJ's are empathetic and tend to be good listeners, which is often not the case for some ExTJ's. On the other hand ExTJ's are pragmatic and don't take things personally, which is not always true for ExFJ's. I think there are different issues here.
    +1
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #29
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Okay obviously there's no point in me using this forum anymore.

    Maybe 15% of the members read what I say.
    Last edited by proteanmix; 10-21-2009 at 08:23 PM. Reason: removed insult...you just need a hug
    wails from the crypt.

  10. #30
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    ^I read your response. Good advice. Just because we aren't quoting you or replying to you, doesn't mean we're not reading. I'm just taking in all the responses; absorbing, assimilating. {This is probably related to your advice, but sorry, can't help it.}

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