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  1. #21
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    So the answer is .. My inner thoughts are a jumbled mess. Think of a lot of dots bouncing around, some dots become bigger to create a bigger and more productive idea and during this time, it is me trying to attach lines to all these dots to form a grounded idea of something.
    I have often thought of Si like that, too. As a bunch of pinpoints of data/memories/info. By themselves, they sit around loosely but not floating away, like grains of sand.

    I was thinking recently...that every little thing I "experience" in my day happens, and is jotted down as a few short notes in my mind. Then those notes are left there, associated with that event or experience, sitting around for future reference.

    I like the "map" analogy. Life begins unexplored, waiting to be mapped and charted. As we go places / do things, we fill in that map. When we revisit an area of life, we know what's there, because we have a map of it--so it's kind of strange when that revisited place doesn't match the map, and we have to redraw it.

    Maybe Si has a lot to do with the fact that humans' contact with the world happens only through our own subjective lens for each of us. My "idea" of what the world looks like is probably more real to me than the plain-factual physical real-world. But these interpretations of the world don't come out of nowhere, they are based on the sum of our prior knowledge, I'd say.

    As I've said before, when people ask where is my computer, I search my brain for where I "know" the computer to be. My mind has pegged that it sits in that room between the kitchen and the living room. It was sitting there for years as the shared family-computer. It isn't there anymore, but I forget that sometimes without the right orientation of my thoughts.

    So I guess it does work like someone jotting notes down about every single thing that happens to us. Sometimes those notes don't include concrete details like numbers (though lots of times they do), sometimes they are just facts about concrete things. Could be quantitative or qualitative, I think.

    Looking for more solid examples?
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  2. #22
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    Si is my leading function. I use Si in daily life without even realizing it. Basically sometimes, if I see something or hear something, my mind usually automatically thinks of anything related to that sight/sound/taste/etc. in the past. It's involuntary, and works especially strongly for things that are more foreign to me. This can be very useful when studying for tests or working in school or in a job, but not so great in other circumstances, when a recollection of the past is undesired.

    It's almost like an inborn survival mechanism. For example, if... let's say years ago, I had a flu shot, and I still got sick five days after that flu shot. The next time I have to get a flu shot, I will think - ok, last time I got a flu shot, I still got sick five days after it, so what's the point in taking the flu shot this time?

    Another example is let's say I look at a tree. When I see the tree, I automatically think of any past associations I've had with that tree (my brain does this instantly, without me even thinking about it). Basically, it's like a built-in evolutionary instinct to find if I should continue with an activity that I have done in the past, or whether I shouldn't.

    I'm working on an assignment on a job - I first think of whether I've done this before. If the answer is yes, I think of what the performance was like last time I did. If it was good, then it encourages me to continue doing the activity. If it was bad, then it sort of discourages me a little. This is why change can be difficult for me. But when this happens, I usually tend to find the positives of doing the job.

    I rely on the past to perform in the present, but am honestly a little scared of the future. That's why experience is key especially for SJs.

    Another way I use Si is when I see or hear something, it can just stick in my mind, even sometimes for several years. If I force myself, I can capture a mental photograph of something and reproduce the same picture a short while later too. And of course, Si helps me in remembering any kinds of interesting facts or data.
    Thanks, that's the kind of thing I was looking for.

    How does Si translate into your attitudes/beliefs regarding politics, religion, etc.? Is it a significant factor?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post

    Looking for more solid examples?
    Yes, but your post was helpful too. Can you answer the same question I posed to TCO?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #23
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Well, unfortunately, I cannot give you an accurate picture of what Si is, but I can surely tell you what life can be like without it!

    Oh, TCO, could you please, oh please, bring some of your Si this way. Thanks so much.

    ***so envious***
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  4. #24
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Thanks, that's the kind of thing I was looking for.

    How does Si translate into your attitudes/beliefs regarding politics, religion, etc.? Is it a significant factor?
    No problem. Si doesn't really affect my religious or political beliefs at all, really. People say all SJs are conservative. I'm not; I lean more liberal than conservative. Most of the SJs I know are the same. Then again a lot of my political views have to do with my upbringing as well as recent events.


    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Well, unfortunately, I cannot give you an accurate picture of what Si is, but I can surely tell you what life can be like without it!

    Oh, TCO, could you please, oh please, bring some of your Si this way. Thanks so much.

    ***so envious***
    Yeah, I do love my 'good old' Si.

    Could use a boost in some other functions though, lol.

  5. #25
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    No problem. Si doesn't really affect my religious or political beliefs at all, really. People say all SJs are conservative. I'm not; I lean more liberal than conservative. Most of the SJs I know are the same. Then again a lot of my political views have to do with my upbringing as well as recent events.
    Perhaps it's just that Si is conducive to sticking with whatever political/religious ideology it was raised with, since that's what has been stored in its sensory memory as "the way things have always been."

    Maybe the association with SJs and conservatism is merely a function of the fact that the generation before ours had conservative tendencies, and that Si tends to stick with whatever has worked in the past until shown a very compelling reason that it should change.

    My ESTJ sister is extremely liberal, but I would chalk this up largely to her upbringing from my very liberal mother. Since liberalism has always been the interpretation used, she sticks with that because Si has stored it as the most comfortable methodology. Interesting...
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #26
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Perhaps it's just that Si is conducive to sticking with whatever political/religious ideology it was raised with, since that's what has been stored in its sensory memory as "the way things have always been."

    Maybe the association with SJs and conservatism is merely a function of the fact that the generation before ours had conservative tendencies, and that Si tends to stick with whatever has worked in the past until shown a very compelling reason that it should change.

    My ESTJ sister is extremely liberal, but I would chalk this up largely to her upbringing from my very liberal mother. Since liberalism has always been the interpretation used, she sticks with that because Si has stored it as the most comfortable methodology. Interesting...
    Yeah, that's very likely the way it worked for me. So Si has influenced my political beliefs.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    Si is my leading function. I use Si in daily life without even realizing it. Basically sometimes, if I see something or hear something, my mind usually automatically thinks of anything related to that sight/sound/taste/etc. in the past. It's involuntary, and works especially strongly for things that are more foreign to me. This can be very useful when studying for tests or working in school or in a job, but not so great in other circumstances, when a recollection of the past is undesired.

    I DO THIS I'M ALWAYS TRYING TO RECREATE PRIOR FEELINGS, TRYING TO RELIVE MY EARLIER FAMILY.

    It's almost like an inborn survival mechanism. For example, if... let's say years ago, I had a flu shot, and I still got sick five days after that flu shot. The next time I have to get a flu shot, I will think - ok, last time I got a flu shot, I still got sick five days after it, so what's the point in taking the flu shot this time?

    I WOULD DO THIS TO IF I EVER WOULD GET THE FLU SHOT. I DO THIS WITH ALL SORTS OF MEDICAL ISSUES, BODILY SYMPTOMS, HEALTH AND WELLBEING

    Another example is let's say I look at a tree. When I see the tree, I automatically think of any past associations I've had with that tree (my brain does this instantly, without me even thinking about it). Basically, it's like a built-in evolutionary instinct to find if I should continue with an activity that I have done in the past, or whether I shouldn't.

    I LOVE TREES AND I'M ALWAYS SEARCHING FOR THE MEANING OF ANY TREE I'M ATTACHED TO ATM

    I'm working on an assignment on a job - I first think of whether I've done this before. If the answer is yes, I think of what the performance was like last time I did. If it was good, then it encourages me to continue doing the activity. If it was bad, then it sort of discourages me a little. This is why change can be difficult for me. But when this happens, I usually tend to find the positives of doing the job.

    YES, THIS JUST MAKES GOOD COMMON SENSE, WHY FIX WHAT IS NOT BROKEN. I DO THIS. THOUGH WILL HAVE TO ADD I'M NOT DISCOURAGED JUST A LITTLE, BUT A LOT!

    I rely on the past to perform in the present, but am honestly a little scared of the future. That's why experience is key especially for SJs.

    I'M NOT SCARED OF THE FUTURE BUT WANT IT HERE ALREADY. I DON'T REALLY RELATE TO YOUR STATEMENT.

    Another way I use Si is when I see or hear something, it can just stick in my mind, even sometimes for several years. If I force myself, I can capture a mental photograph of something and reproduce the same picture a short while later too. And of course, Si helps me in remembering any kinds of interesting facts or data.
    YES EVERYTHING STICKS IN MY MIND WHETHER ACCURATE OR NOT.

    I COULD BE Si RATHER THAN Ni BASED ON THIS DESCRIPTION.

  8. #28
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    How does Si translate into your attitudes/beliefs regarding politics, religion, etc.? Is it a significant factor?
    I think without Fi, I really wouldn't care about politics. Although, I was brought up in a family that believed politics were dirty business and rather pointless, too. I was going along, not being concerned about it, until around the time I was 20. Then, I gradually reviewed in my head what I "knew" about the world and society, and made decisions about what was "right," then weighed different arguments to see which ones "made the most sense" to meet those standards.

    For religion, I grew up in a family following the religious rituals as expected. Around age 10 through early teens, I realized I didn't want to do all that just because someone told me to do so. Maybe input from society prompted me to think that, maybe it was my own conclusion, or maybe a mix. It didn't matter in early years because I was getting along just fine with nothing rocking the boat, but as I kept going through teenage years, I wanted to be sure that my ideals were mine and not somebody else's--that became increasingly important to me, and I became increasingly aware of what outside influences could bring in any direction. Of course, probably all of my beliefs are built upon outside influences in some part or other...

    I am not naturally interested in religion, though, and that's why I think Fi is the trigger here, for me. I mean that I don't feel a need every day to reaffirm who I am or something, though once in a while I do feel it's a good idea and sit down and sort through it. There are plenty of things to do in the day, and thinking about timeless morals and afterlife and stuff usually doesn't become a constant, active, thought pattern during that. (Maybe embedded and dormant, affecting it that way...) This is why, to this day, my beliefs are mostly just beliefs and not activities. If I believe in something, then I believe in it, and it doesn't need to be manifested as an activity. (Though activities are affected by beliefs, religious rituals are like the direct expression of those beliefs through activities.) Then again, I have found that it can feel good to express these through activities, or usually just discussing and thinking about them, but it's most valuable when I do it on my own time and my own desire.

    For all my life, though, figuring things out has been an interest of mine, and this has driven some exploration in science, philosophy, religion, politics, and so on. (Si-Te, I think.) This part happens more naturally and more often for me, and for example, is why ethics are maybe the least interesting subtopics in philosophy to me. My values and principles probably come from these more often than they come from religious doctrine.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    I don't know if I'm an SJ or not (probably an IST_), but I feel a strong connection to Si, so feel like I can respond to a couple of these questions:

    1. Si (at least to me) seeks a narrative to life, like a story arc. It's disorienting if the present or the future have no relationship to the past - almost like a life without context. As a result, time is extremely powerful: an old friend is ALWAYS more valuable than a new friend... there's a sense of "coming home" when participating in an old tradition. Same is true of a sense of place: I know every time I've moved far away from my home, I've struggled with intense homesickness, and always moved back to (or at least near) my hometown.

    2. Si is a storehouse of facts and information (I have tons of reference books and books of lists which I can recall very easily), but unlike Se, Si isn't as strong with recognizing present reality. I personally never thought that I was less equipped to understand theory - I actually love talking theory - but I'm at least equally as interested in learning facts. I watch a lot of documentaries or historical dramatizations and read a lot of history books - all of which suggest a preference for the real over the abstract, and seem very much related to Si.

    3. How does Si impact religion/politics/beliefs? In interesting ways...

    a) Politics: Si is likely to lead people to support institutions, believe in community ahead of individualism, and hold less skepticism toward government than the other temperaments. If the Left - Right measure is based on the role of government, SJs would likely lean to the Left (the Right in the dichotomy would support individual liberty, pure capitalism without regulation, weaker government, etc...the Left would support national/community service, government intervention to stabilize the economy, etc) If the Left - Right measure is based more on the "New Left" and the backlash against it (i.e. the "law and order" Right vs. the hedonistic Left) than it would flip and Si would likely lead to more conservatism than liberalism. Personally, I'm pretty far to the Left, and I think that's very much due to the use of Si... I can't stand the ideas of anarchism, unregulated markets, libertarianism, or lack of concern for the community as a whole.

    b) Religion/Beliefs: To Si, religion is generally seen as a positive because it articulates values and maintains a code of behavior. Also, it is an institution, which adds a sense of community and stable society. One expression I've heard very often from non-Si friends is "I'm spiritual, but not religious." For someone who is Si-dominant, it's likely the opposite: religious, but not all that spiritual. The S keeps things pretty grounded, less likely to trust epiphanies. I imagine ISJs populate many "mainstream" religious institutions. I think the assumption that religious fundamentalists or evangelicals are likely ISxJs misses the mark. Fundamentalist faiths tend to be newer (which wouldn't appeal to the traditionalistic Si-dom), more charismatic than the usually reserved ISxJ would prefer, and more spiritual.

    Hope that helps with some of the questions.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    I just wanted to add my own experience of Si as how I personally experience it hasn't been brought up so far. For me, Si is most significant as my subjective experience of life and the world. In the past I didn't realise just how subjective my perceptions are, I think because I am on the other hand a very objective thinker and very analytical – and other people tend to see more this objective side of me. It was only since I started learning about type that I began to realise how different other people's inner worlds can be. I also hardly ever share my Si experiences. They sound random and weird to other people. It's only my ENTP husband that I've trusted enough to talk about these things to properly. His inner world is impacted very little by sensory input, I find him amazingly level and relaxed in that way, so I find him to be a useful sounding board for me to check what's going on when my inner world is being rubbed in different directions all at once.

    >> Let's hear some Si inner monologue, hm? <<
    It's like on the one hand, there is the external object world that can be perceived using S. But when you have dominant Si, it seems there is more behind that world. You wonder what it is, what all the little emotional vibrations you can't put a name to are, they can feel so deep, and you search for the answers. I'm more aware now that actually, there is nothing more behind the actual physical world, the “more” is all inside you, but you don't know that for sure because external and inner feel so close and mixed (if you really go into the experience and don't take a step back). I don't react so intensely to everything in the external world like this (or I'd be psychotic!), only to very certain things, but I can't control what I react to or how I react to it. I just experience it. The sensory input triggers feelings and thoughts that trigger a random chain of other feelings and thoughts, often raising questions. Example (I paraphrase, this happened a couple of years ago):


    [In the car driving home with a friend after an afternoon at the beach. We're driving into a colourful sunset.]

    [In my head:] Well, the beach was ok. But there must be more to life. Look at that sunset. The colours are nice. But it's sad. Why is it sad? I suppose I should be in awe. But I'm not. How can people just stare at a sunset and say how magnificent it is? Don't they get bored? Looking at this sunset makes me want to search for a more meaningful experience. For the bigger truth. What is that truth? The answer isn't in the sunset. Where is the answer?

    [Out loud to my ESFP friend:] Look at that sunset! Isn't it strange? Don't you think there must be something more? I wish I could be happy. What do you think?

    [ESFP:] I think you're funny. Why can't you just enjoy the sunset?


    That's the thing. With Si, you sometimes can't just “enjoy” it. I think my Si triggers my Fi. In this sense I enjoy relating to NFs. I can share the same feeling of despair at the banality of life and experience. Is this the same for others with dominant Si? I'd be interested to know.

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