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Thread: MBTI Step III

  1. #21
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    You lucky dog, I still don't know how you managed to snag that Manual... !
    It's too bad I wasn't around longer or we could have slogged through some of it together and discussed it.

    So you're saying that Form J, Myers' actual test, contains all the info necessary to map into what is now referred to as Step III?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You lucky dog, I still don't know how you managed to snag that Manual... !
    Exquisitely Vaginal.

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    You know, sometimes I can't possibly fathom what is going on in that papas fritas head of yours
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Exquisitely Vaginal.
    Hey Vaginkgo, I think you have vaginas on the brain.

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    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You lucky dog, I still don't know how you managed to snag that Manual... !
    It's too bad I wasn't around longer or we could have slogged through some of it together and discussed it.
    Oh, I thought I mentioned it in person.

    At the APT meetup, it was the prize in a raffle. The guy who won it didn't need one; he saw me looking at it, and just gave it to me.
    So you're saying that Form J, Myers' actual test, contains all the info necessary to map into what is now referred to as Step III?
    It's saying that Form J IS Step III. Just like EAR (Form K) was renamed Step II, it's saying that the TDI was renamed Step III.
    But again, the CAPT site seems to omit any mention of Comfort-Discomfort.

    The link in the OP for INTP is down, but on the site now
    http://www.capt.org/assessment-mbti-step3/ is the report what is basically an INFPD. The Interpretive Report doesn't mention a letter code at all, but just describes the traits of each scale. The Verified Personality Description mentions INFP, but not the additional scale. You can see in the interpretive report that they are Discomfort, because it mentions a dissatisfaction and sense of failure.
    (I don't see where it's necessarily breaking down J/P more).
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    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    So, I've flipped through the MBTI Step III a bit... here is a (partial, incomplete, paraphrased) summary:

    So, it looks like the Step III adds several new concepts they are:

    Scales: Sufficiency and Development scales (see below) give a calculated weight to some aspect of sufficiency and development.
    Patterns: inter-item responses that, when combined, create patterns that lead to a characterization. For example, "unable to make any decisions on his or her own" vs "seeking input for knowledgeable others before making difficult decisions"
    Rules: the algorithms that determine whether certain statements should appear on a Step III report. They "are defined by ranges Sufficiency or Development scale scores (for example, a stamina score above 14)"
    Statement: A verbal description triggered by a rule.

    Sufficiency Scales: these attempt to discern one's overall development, and whether it suffices to meet one's needs. Normal ranges on the scales are influence by an individual's type (for example, ISFPs tend to have the lowest stamina, while ENTJs have the highest):
    • Confidence: one's self perception of one's adequacy and efficacy.
    • Stamina: how much conscious psychic energy one has to deal with overcoming challenges and facing adversity.
    • Compensatory Strain: behaviors and attitudes that reflect easing internal strain by projecting onto others.


    Developmental Scales: narrower scales that focus on a particular aspect or pattern. The interpretation of a scale may be influenced by type (for example, some types are very likely to be shy, hence shyness is not necessary a sign of poor type development):
    • Acceptance: constructive ability to accept things as they are.
    • Application: Ability to apply oneself when things are an unrewarding grind.
    • Appreciation: positive valuations of others
    • Cynicism: feeling that the world i bad and people are untrustworthy.
    • Defensiveness: assumption that one is unappreciated and that others are likely hostile, so one should on guard.
    • Dependence: relying on others and not wanting to act independently.
    • Enjoyment: Ability to savor the present (has good and bad aspects).
    • Evidence of Failure: self-report of past failures and expectations of future ones.
    • Faith: acceptance of things as presented without a demand for corroborating evidence.
    • Flexibility: ability to adapt to changing circumstances, and preferring flexible environments.
    • Freedom of Expression: expressing one's views and beliefs opening to others. Like Step II intimate/gregarious facet.
    • Friendship: enjoying a large circle of friends and acquaintances with whom one socializes.
    • Grievance: suspicious approach to others and an expectation the others will try to take advantage.
    • Group Sociability: liking a broad range of social situations. Like Step II initiating/receiving facet.
    • Harmony: agreeable attitude towards others, wanting to get along and have positive relationships with others.
    • Indecisiveness: procrastinating until the decision is made for one.
    • Logic: solving problems logically and analytically searching for the truth. Like Step II logical/empathetic facet.
    • Planning: planning for future events and avoiding unwelcome surprises. Like Step II planful/open ended.
    • Relatedness: valuing relationships to others as an integral part of interactions with others.
    • Self-focus: selfishness and egocentrism.
    • Shyness: discomfort in social settings, especially unfamiliar ones.
    • Spontaneity: disliking rigid constraints and preferring to respond to the needs of the moment. Like Step II scheduled/spontaneity.
    • Stubbornness: resisting changing one's view or actions, regardless of information presented.
    • Warmth: having positive feelings toward individuals and groups and expressing those feelings.
    • Worry: feeling that something is wrong and bad things will happen.


    The manual admits that it doesn't have good statistical test for testing the statistical validity of patterns and rules, except for their correlation with external evaluations and correlations with other psychological measures (for example, correlations with CPI, Adjective CheckList, Creative Leadership Benchmarks and job satisfaction measures).

    The manual doesn't include anything like a complete list of patterns and rules (much less their algorithms) beyond giving a few examples. The manual does give per-type averages on each of the scales above (for exampe, ISTPs are the most cynical, ENFJs the least; INTPs and INFPs top "evidence of failure", while ESTJs score the lowest).

    So, I personally find the various scales kind of interesting, but if the actual test results don't list where one falls on the scales, and what variables triggered the statement and rules, it does seem like Forer generation black box. Also, since it's very new it's lacking much in depth as far as studies of validity and applicability go.

    Also, in order to administer Step III, you have to have a master degree, and be certified on MBTI Step I (or equivalent) and Step III. That's going to limit the availability of the Step III, even for those who are interested in it.

    Still interesting, and definitely a different direction than Step I and Step II.

  7. #27
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Doing a periodic search to try to find how C/D figures in Step III (sparked off by a current PerC thread questioning the validity of J/P), I found this, indicating the Step I dichotomies each of the C/D factors loaded onto:

    guarded-optimistic (also T/F)
    defiant-compliant (also T/F)
    carefree-worried (also T/F)
    decisive-ambivalent (also J/P)
    intrepid-inhibited (Also E/I)
    leader-follower (Also E/I)
    proactive-distractible (also J/P)

    http://books.google.com/books?id=v7W...0C&pg=PA88&lpg

    Also notice, how the subscales are "blind" to S/N. They only load onto E/I, T/F and J/P, —which are the "expressive/responsive" factors! I had proposed that Neuroticism was connected with those factors; particularly low scores in them (introversion and/or task-focus).

    This theory would suggest that E, F and P are the more "Comfort" factors, while I, T and J are "Discomfort". For the E/I subscales, it seems to work that way. for J/P, it seems reversed (with the negative sounding term "distractible", and "proactive" sounding more "positive" than "ambivalent"), though you would think that the more "open" P's would have the most Comfort. In practice, the "proactiveness" leads to a lot of stress. Perhaps that was meant to be the "Discomfort" facet.

    For T/F, it seems to work for "defiant/compliant", but the other two, it's hard to tell which is which. We generally assume T would be "carefree" and "optimistic" and F would be more "worried" and "guarded". But that's not necessarily the case either. (So I wonder why those load onto T/F anyway. They seem more like J/P or E/I).
    Last edited by Eric B; 01-31-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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    I've just e-mailed both Peter Geyer and a CAPT official, asking about this, and apparently, the MBTI Manual information stating that the TDI is Step III is incorrect, or at least outdated. This arose when the "Step" designations were being assigned (when Saunders' seven subscales were split off from the EAR), and Step III, (now Form Z instead of Form J) since evolved past that. So Step III and TDI are even sold on the CAPT site separately.
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  9. #29
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    The local APT chapter had a presentation on Step III last night, and I made sure to sign up for that one (hadn't been able to make it to a meeting for some time. Had to rush, straight after work).
    The speaker was Allen L. Hammer, which is a prominent name you can see, in the field. He is heavily involved in the development of these instruments.

    The first thing he pointed out was that when it states that it measures “a person's current use of judgment and perception”, this refers to (what I would call) the “class” or “rationality” of the function “j”: T/F or “p”: S/N; not the J/P dichotomy. This always threw me off; I assumed that if Step I deals with the basic dichotomies, and Step II deals with the facets (subscales) of the dichotomies, the Step III “more about judgment and perception” also referred to a dichotomy.
    So when it finally came out and the sample reports were put up a few years ago, I couldn't make heads or tails of it, as it doesn't mention anything about dichotomies (As Hammer mentioned, it only briefly mentions the type code). Then, the other descriptions seemed even further away: “Addresses type development”; “Helps people use their natural types as effectively as possible”. Now, it all fits together!
    It's more like some other sort of psychological assessment (for clinical counseling), besides type.

    This presentation: http://www.bapt.org.uk/conference_fi...esentation.pdf is similar to the Powerpoint he used.

    So he pointed out along the way that when you just see fields of grass, you're Sensing, but when you “see” it as a lot of green, you're actually JUDGING -- putting what you see into a category. Most of us would think seeing in terms of color was Sensing; particularly “Se”.
    This was in conjunction of surmising “how many colors does a newborn infant see when he looks out at the grass?” (i. e. not yet able to judge it as categories).

    This is very good to know, and pivotal to understanding things. It for one helps to understand “undifferentiated” functions (and by extension, “concretism”, as we were recently discussing, and I was curious about).

    It makes clear that everyone “uses” all four functions, at every moment of the day, but our type is what we prefer, not what we “use”.
    So the idea behind Step III is to see if there is some deficiency in the two functions (one judgment, the other, perceiving) that we prefer.


    An example he gave was an ENFP who can't make a decision, because he's going solely by Ne and underutilizing his Fi. This is what this instrument would pick up.


    The reports give “statements” on the problems or strengths, based on the responses. Proteanmix gave several examples in post #3.

    So,
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    >You appear to have confidence in yourself and your ability to handle the situations you face in at least some areas of your life.
    Wow, how vague is that?
    It's not supposed to be type specific; it's just showing he has good use of whichever preferred function would would be connected with confidence for him.

    This, as someone asked, is where more potentially “negative” stuff is brought in to the theory. All of this was in Myers' original work, but held back for that reason.

    So then I asked about TDI/Form J and the Comfort/Discomfort scale, and he said that that is completely done away with, except for some of the items being incorporated into Steps II and III. As I have reported before, C/D's subscales were connected with some of those of E/I, T/F and J/P in the factor analysis that was done.
    So I guess they gave up on trying to match FFM's “Neuroticism”, and those types of traits are covered in this analysis without a fifth factor. (The stuff these reports discuss obviously are not apart of inborn personality. They are things that can be worked on and improved. To me, “Neuroticism” as inborn trait is built in to the five temperaments, as Eysenck originally mapped it to the ancient four. So, in type, it would be implicit in the Keirsey groups and Interaction Styles).

    However, the purpose is not to change anything, but to raise discussion about it, like “Do you want to do things like that?”

    One thing that came over from Form J was Confidence, Stamina and Strain (described in link and post #26). An interesting point regarding Stamina was that athletes had the next lowest stamina, after drug addicts! That's because this is measuring “psychic” stamina, and all their stamina is focused on the physical!

    So I'm interested in it. They gave a limited time invitation to take it with a feedback session, but it's $225, so I'm not sure right now.
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    So how do you take it? It seems I've looked for this before on the Internet but couldn't find anything.

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