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Thread: N - myths

  1. #21
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I needed to make things right for my kids, too, but for me, that meant something different than the concrete things. That kind of stuff was not what bothered me about my childhood. The relational instability and my mom's musical boyfriends bothered me a lot more, so I focused on keeping my relationship with their daddy happy more than on the house, etc. I was so overwhelmed I had to prioritize and that was about the best I could do. My brother was apparently traumatized by the material stuff more. He is very good about the bills, etc. He loves his wife very much, but sometimes I think she needs to kick his butt.
    Yeah, I guess we all prioritize in different ways - maybe this is an illustration of a T/F difference as opposed to S/N, how you focus on the relational stuff while to me the technical stuff is the priority. I do think that sometimes I need to pay more attention to my ENFx daughter, and forget that she needs it much more than me or my other one (INTP). Not having a partner either, makes a difference for me of course. You've just inspired me cafe, to make more effort with my daughter's emotional needs!
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  2. #22
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yeah, I guess we all prioritize in different ways - maybe this is an illustration of a T/F difference as opposed to S/N, how you focus on the relational stuff while to me the technical stuff is the priority. I do think that sometimes I need to pay more attention to my ENFx daughter, and forget that she needs it much more than me or my other one (INTP). Not having a partner either, makes a difference for me of course. You've just inspired me cafe, to make more effort with my daughter's emotional needs!
    Heh. And I need to tell the online service what bills I want to pay this week. After I fold the laundry. So much fun, this being a grown-up is. I've finally got it through my skull how important routine is going to be to helping my autistic INTP be functional (and need me to do less for him).
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #23
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by developer View Post
    I am concerned about the turn several threads are taking recently. Basically, one gets the impression, as if there were a need to associate N - ness with good qualities as in contrast to S - ness.

    On one side, there are several discussions about how N is correlated to IQ. Although this correlation seems to exist, that does not mean that Ss are by definition less intelligent, indiviudally, as Ns. We are just looking at two slightly shifted Bell curves here, but with both containing a very wide range of individual values. The approach to statistics used by some posters actually serves to reinforce the notion that N does not always need to be correlated with high IQ.

    On the other side, some posters argue that no high level Nazi could have been an N. These posters do not seem to have seen much original footage of speeches done by high level officials of that regime (I have). I fully agree with Uber's assessment of several persons mentioned in his post (although I may not agree with his enthusiasm for these persons). I am afraid that this terrible ideology did infiltrate N - brains just as well as S - brains.

    I am very conscious and appreciative of Jennifer's comment in an earlier thread, where she said that many Ns are suffering so much in RL, that they need to blow off some steam here in this forum. This is a valuable argument, but I think we are not doing ourselves or the MBTI a big favour by propagating the myth of the N as some superior being.
    I recommend the book of Nora Waln: The Approaching Storm: One Woman's Story of Germany 1934-1938.

    National Socialism is about the idea of the Nation and of the ideology of the State of the People.

    Socialism & Nationalism are the twin by-products of the French Revolution. Their creation was not a foreseen event.
    The idea of the Revolution was to take the power from the aristocrats and give it to the people.
    The middle classes.

    Nation however is seen as a specific people.

    The languages of nations had not entered the stage of literacy. Once the people gained power and rudimentary learning they became conscious of the myth of the nation.

    The earlier wars were not wars between nations. They were wars between powers.

    The power could not be shifted to the people. It could only be shifted to specific peoples.
    The myths of the nations clashed. The German's was the Aryan myth.
    It included the totalitarian idea of the communality.

    The French had unleashed the hound; the hound went back to France. To bite.
    The myth of the Volk appealed to the masses. It was the Volk (folk) movement.
    The writers of the Enlightenment had not created the future of their image.


    And what has this to do with anything?

  4. #24
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    The difference is not on what we are actually able to do, but on what we are more likely to drop first when in face of adversity. A Ni-valuing person will tend to stick to the long-term strategy when being in adverse condtion, whereas a Si -valuing person will do what is most effective right now. The example given by cafe in regards to taking her kids from school can be used: when in need, she forgot about Si (having the shoes matched) because she had to run to take her kids.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I recommend the book of Nora Waln: The Approaching Storm: One Woman's Story of Germany 1934-1938.

    National Socialism is about the idea of the Nation and of the ideology of the State of the People.

    Socialism & Nationalism are the twin by-products of the French Revolution. Their creation was not a foreseen event.
    The idea of the Revolution was to take the power from the aristocrats and give it to the people.
    The middle classes.

    Nation however is seen as a specific people.

    The languages of nations had not entered the stage of literacy. Once the people gained power and rudimentary learning they became conscious of the myth of the nation.

    The earlier wars were not wars between nations. They were wars between powers.

    The power could not be shifted to the people. It could only be shifted to specific peoples.
    The myths of the nations clashed. The German's was the Aryan myth.
    It included the totalitarian idea of the communality.

    The French had unleashed the hound; the hound went back to France. To bite.
    The myth of the Volk appealed to the masses. It was the Volk (folk) movement.
    The writers of the Enlightenment had not created the future of their image.


    And what has this to do with anything?
    Yeah, what?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Yeah, what?
    Here's the final solution to that question.

  7. #27
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    The difference is not on what we are actually able to do, but on what we are more likely to drop first when in face of adversity. A Ni-valuing person will tend to stick to the long-term strategy when being in adverse condtion, whereas a Si -valuing person will do what is most effective right now. The example given by cafe in regards to taking her kids from school can be used: when in need, she forgot about Si (having the shoes matched) because she had to run to take her kids.
    I've never thought to use the functions in examining situations like what you mentioned with the Ni/Si. Thanks.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  8. #28
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Yeah, what?
    All good things come to those who wait.

  9. #29
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Here's the final solution to that question.
    Those who had power in the Reich were the old time Nazis. They had been in the movement from the time of its conception. They expressed a mind set not different of the U.S. White Supremacists.

    If you want to know if there were Ns or NTs among the top Nazis why do you not study the internet pages of the White Supremacists? Do you find in those pages a sign of rationalist mind pattern? NF idealism?

  10. #30
    Senior Member developer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Those who had power in the Reich were the old time Nazis. They had been in the movement from the time of its conception. They expressed a mind set not different of the U.S. White Supremacists.

    If you want to know if there were Ns or NTs among the top Nazis why do you not study the internet pages of the White Supremacists? Do you find in those pages a sign of rationalist mind pattern? NF idealism?
    I have a better suggestion: watch them on original film footage, read their autobiographies. That will rob you of your illusions. I have the pleasure of speaking their mother tongue. The language alone is deceiving.

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