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Thread: N - myths

  1. #11
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Well it doesn't help when Ns themselves say they can barely remember to put their shirts on the right way.
    Hee hee.. shirt wrong way = always N thing => leads to person living on the street. So agree 100%.

    I am sorry to say but you couldn't have made much worse impression..

  2. #12
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    The only Ns I've met with "common sense" are near the border between S and N (like me). Extreme Ns seem to be very clutzy.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #13
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    It is also an incredible myth that N are so helpless that we have to be taken care of. This is one of the most distasteful myths I've come across. Am I the only one who's seen this?
    No, I agree 100% with you. I've been self-sufficient in the 'real world' for 7 yrs now, and only recently started having a roommate again, after having lived alone for 4 yrs.

    And my bills are always paid on time, and I am good at budgeting.

    And I keep my apartment clean.

    And I cook my own meals, and have a fully stocked refrigerator.

    And I wear clothes that match. (shirt on wrong way? Are you kidding me?? :-)

    And I know when to take myself to a doctor.


  4. #14
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    No, I agree 100% with you. I've been self-sufficient in the 'real world' for 7 yrs now, and only recently started having a roommate again, after having lived alone for 4 yrs.

    And my bills are always paid on time, and I am good at budgeting.

    And I keep my apartment clean.

    And I cook my own meals, and have a fully stocked refrigerator.

    And I wear clothes that match. (shirt on wrong way? Are you kidding me?? :-)

    And I know when to take myself to a doctor.

    I was pretty good at a lot of that stuff until I had kids. I really only put my shirt on wrong if I'm dressing in a terrible hurry, like somebody's at the door and I'm not dressed yet and the kids are running around hollering about it and the dogs are running around barking.

    Last year, however, I was running late to pick up the kids from school (lost track of time) and after I got home from picking them up, I realized I was wearing one tennis shoe and one loafer.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #15
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I was pretty good at a lot of that stuff until I had kids. I really only put my shirt on wrong if I'm dressing in a terrible hurry, like somebody's at the door and I'm not dressed yet and the kids are running around hollering about it and the dogs are running around barking.

    Last year, however, I was running late to pick up the kids from school (lost track of time) and after I got home from picking them up, I realized I was wearing one tennis shoe and one loafer.
    Yes, I can see that!!! :-) I definitely become more scatterbrained when I feel I'm pulled in lots of directions. Then I will become more forgetful. It's one of my fears of having kids.

  6. #16
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    No, I agree 100% with you. I've been self-sufficient in the 'real world' for 7 yrs now, and only recently started having a roommate again, after having lived alone for 4 yrs.

    And my bills are always paid on time, and I am good at budgeting.

    And I keep my apartment clean.

    And I cook my own meals, and have a fully stocked refrigerator.

    And I wear clothes that match. (shirt on wrong way? Are you kidding me?? :-)

    And I know when to take myself to a doctor.

    Exactement. Except it's almost 16 years that I've been self-sufficient. And I give good dinner parties too, which I plan, shop and cook for completely alone, and clean up after them completely by noon the next day. My definitely Sensing mother was absolutely USELESS at all of this stuff and still is.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I was pretty good at a lot of that stuff until I had kids.
    I got even better at it after having kids...! Needing to make things right for them was extra motivation on top of my own self-respect.

    Interesting... to see the good myths and the bad ones being dispelled! For a minute I thought the whole thread would become a chance for the Sensing minority here to get their own back on the iNtuitive majority. Not that it wouldn't be deserved still, anyway.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  7. #17
    Senior Member developer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    I am sorry if I have upset you. I don't think that person's future or fate or whatever is determined by statistical correlations. I hold that IQ has value and I don't step back from it.
    .....

    I think you are sensitive to the discrimination that sensory orientated people face.
    ....

    In any case, I'm hoping to work with you to improve the perception of S on this forum. I
    I am an INTJ. Therefore, I am neither upset, nor do I feel discriminated. I just find this "N = bright and good, S = dumb and shallow" intellectually embarrassing. MBTI is a good theory, let's not drag it down with this kind of misinterpretation.

  8. #18
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's far too extreme.
    The allowance is that people who practice a function more (and naturally) will logically be "better with it" than those who have avoided it their whole lives.
    I don't disagree with that. But what I find is that people take different paths to reach the same conclusions. That's was the basic point of what my myth was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So ISxJ's have Ne as their inferior. I don't think you can avoid the conclusion that this function gets developed later in life, and it's far more typical for them to have paranoid fears based on wanton Ne usage, than Ne that is drawing more realistic conclusions.
    Proper conclusion drawing to me is based on healthy use S and N. N has an easier time connecting and seeing implications in events. Then N must support their connections with evidence and data. That's the province of S. What I see is N making inferences with very little support, which prompted me to write that myth. I don't see N working like that based on my experiences. I see N making connections sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong. Sometimes N attributes meaning and significance to where this is none, but N is convinced that something's there when it's not.

    That's why I say that intuitives (at least the ones that populate MBTI forums) are overdependent and overvalue N and devalue S. Which is why these intelligence threads and N superiority keep popping up. If it wasn't a problem (a noticeable one at that) why does the subject keep reoccurring? People don't rehash topics that have been settled to satisfaction, hence the phrase "beating a dead horse."

    Just as you say Ne is the inferior function of ISJs, Si is the inferior function of ENPs. People speak as though sensors are incapable of connecting events, or when they do it's not as accurate. I don't believe that. I do believe that ISJs and ESPs may not connect the dots as quickly, but they don't lack the ability and when they do connect I think they have better evidence.

    You know what else I notice? I'll read on the forum about how analytical INFJs are with their tertiary Ti. But I don't see that same credit given to ESJs or ISPs who are adept with their tertiary Ne or Ni. I've come across a fair amount of ESJs who use their tertiary Ne quite well and all of these people aren't 50+ who are beginning to feel comfortable delving into inferior functions. I do very well with most ISTPs I come into contact with and I believe it's because we bond over through Ni. Do I think I'm better at it then they are? Ummm, maybe although that doesn't mean any observations they make using Ti-Ni are less accurate than my standalone Ni. But people rarely, if ever recognize this usage in ESJs or ISPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    At the same time, it's not uncommon for those with N as a primary to be severely lacking in their perception of the tangible world. They haven't practiced it, they've ignored it most of their lives, and they are far behind a natural S.

    And so on.

    It's what logic predicted and what I have experienced personally with the people I interact with.
    You and I have very different experiences with people. I've thrown so much MBTI into the trash because it breaks down after a certain point when you look at how people actually behave and when you find out what their motivations are for their behavior, so much so that I can barely type people beyond two functions unless they're a textbook example of type.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  9. #19
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I got even better at it after having kids...! Needing to make things right for them was extra motivation on top of my own self-respect.
    I needed to make things right for my kids, too, but for me, that meant something different than the concrete things. That kind of stuff was not what bothered me about my childhood. The relational instability and my mom's musical boyfriends bothered me a lot more, so I focused on keeping my relationship with their daddy happy more than on the house, etc. I was so overwhelmed I had to prioritize and that was about the best I could do. My brother was apparently traumatized by the material stuff more. He is very good about the bills, etc. He loves his wife very much, but sometimes I think she needs to kick his butt.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #20
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    You know what else I notice? I'll read on the forum about how analytical INFJs are with their tertiary Ti. But I don't see that same credit given to ESJs or ISPs who are adept with their tertiary Ne or Ni. I've come across a fair amount of ESJs who use their tertiary Ne quite well and all of these people aren't 50+ who are beginning to feel comfortable delving into inferior functions. I do very well with most ISTPs I come into contact with and I believe it's because we bond over through Ni. Do I think I'm better at it then they are? Ummm, maybe although that doesn't mean any observations they make using Ti-Ni are less accurate than my standalone Ni. But people rarely, if ever recognize this usage in ESJs or ISPs.
    This is an excellent point

    The only thing I disagree with is that we somehow "bond" with people down to that level. I can see an argument for degree of trait seperation (with extremes being big problems), but once you move beyond your top preferences (3rd/4th + shadow), it seems that you could pretty much get along with anyone.

    Which is very true. You can. Most people that can't seem to use "they aren't like me and I don't like them" rather than "they aren't like me so I need to adapt to interact with them", which is the point of MBTI.

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