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  1. #1
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Default Iatrogenic labeling and MBTI

    So i am reading a book that talks about iatrogenic labeling that although done in kindness, it can actually prove to be a disaster, which got me thinking immediately about MBTI.

    So now there are some random (or not possibly not) questions going through my head.

    Granted there are a lot of positives to MBTI however society loves labels and people are mostly comfortable with them, i suppose even a bad label is better than no label, at least you are part of some group thus there is some kind of payoff.

    It is so easy to mistype yourself as we are biased, we all want to be the best and we are all capable of believing our own lies until we make them truths.

    I have noticed though especially on here, most people want to be an N (me included at one point). As Jaguar (hope you don't mind me mentioning your name ) rightly pointed out somewhere on here recently, we all have the potential of using all 8 functions. People can get so stuck in a mindset. It is like someone saying i hate SJ's. Unless you have met every SJ on the planet (good luck with that), you don't really hate SJ's.

    The questions be it which ever test you take, there is little room for maneuver, Yes or No. It is not that simple. Given the question to another situation, you may respond differently.

    Not saying that people on here are unhealthy but i do wonder to what extent, people after taking the test, start behaving very similar to the type they want to be. We know the questions so we know if what they are asking is abstract or not.

    So just how useful is MBTI in everyday life. As someone recently said to me 'Birds of a feather flock together'. I think it is somewhat evident here.
    If none of us displayed our type under our avatars, i do wonder just how much more we would interact with each other.

    If i am making any sense here then feel free to reply. If you think i am talking BS, still be nice.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
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  2. #2
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    It is in the nature of ExFJ's to want to question and understand the nature of social labels.


    Now what I want to know is do you find that first sentence helpful or irritating?
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  3. #3
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    So i am reading a book that talks about iatrogenic labeling that although done in kindness, it can actually prove to be a disaster, which got me thinking immediately about MBTI.

    So now there are some random (or not possibly not) questions going through my head.

    Granted there are a lot of positives to MBTI however society loves labels and people are mostly comfortable with them, i suppose even a bad label is better than no label, at least you are part of some group thus there is some kind of payoff.

    It is so easy to mistype yourself as we are biased, we all want to be the best and we are all capable of believing our own lies until we make them truths.

    I have noticed though especially on here, most people want to be an N (me included at one point). As Jaguar (hope you don't mind me mentioning your name ) rightly pointed out somewhere on here recently, we all have the potential of using all 8 functions. People can get so stuck in a mindset. It is like someone saying i hate SJ's. Unless you have met every SJ on the planet (good luck with that), you don't really hate SJ's.

    The questions be it which ever test you take, there is little room for maneuver, Yes or No. It is not that simple. Given the question to another situation, you may respond differently.

    Not saying that people on here are unhealthy but i do wonder to what extent, people after taking the test, start behaving very similar to the type they want to be. We know the questions so we know if what they are asking is abstract or not.

    So just how useful is MBTI in everyday life. As someone recently said to me 'Birds of a feather flock together'. I think it is somewhat evident here.
    If none of us displayed our type under our avatars, i do wonder just how much more we would interact with each other.

    If i am making any sense here then feel free to reply. If you think i am talking BS, still be nice.
    All MBTI has shown me is that you need a different strategy for different people. You can pick up on the functions being used quickly and play that to your advantage in the interaction. If I'm talking to an N, getting too detailed will hurt my chances of having an effective conversation with them. It's the same with dealing with a Feeler. If the conversation gets too systematic or logical, then I have a chance of losing them, so I have to relate it back to them or to other people.

    I don't give a damn about labeling people. I don't care if someone doesn't want to be labeled. I won't label just for the sake of labeling. However, if traits described by MBTI are easily noticeable and can affect interaction, then it's worth falling back on the types, preferences or functions to give a vague idea of how the other person is thinking. When I talked to others about a recent date, I went to E's for advice on how to handle the dating and I's for discussing my feelings.


  4. #4
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Jung always wanted balance for people:

    "Jung (1971/1921) states: 'Since every man, as a relatively stable being possesses all the basic psychological functions,
    he should also employ them in equal measure' (p. 19).

    Here Jung confirms the possibility of all functions working in equal measure in the psyche of one person.

    Throughout his writing, he describes what happens when one function is superior and conscious and another function is inferior and unconscious.
    When one conscious position is extreme, the position of the other extreme will exist in the unconscious, causing a neurosis "

    The irony here is, what people in this forum think is "normal" is actually neurosis.
    It is not normal to have your functions extremely differentiated.
    As a matter of fact, the more N a person is without S to balance it out,
    the more out of touch with reality, they are.

    I fail to see anything positive about posting threads extolling the virtues of being what many call "sensotards."
    The reason so many Ns lack any direction and success, is you need S to make N's visions, a reality.

    It's that simple.

    Instead of slapping labels on people, I suggest those who actually care about self-improvement, start thinking about balance.
    That is the foundation of the work of people like Ned Herrmann and Katherine Benziger,
    who created models based on whole brain theory.

    I would not want to be an exteme I or E, N or S, T or F, J or P.

    I see enough labels when I go grocery shopping.
    I don't need to see 4 letters tattooed on people's foreheads.

    FWIW, I think the majority of people are mistyped in this forum, anyway.
    So what is the point?
    To belong to a group you don't really belong to?

    That's logical.
    The future is for the unafraid.

  5. #5
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    I think when you become very familiar with MBTI and start to really understand the ins and outs at the deepest level, there comes a point where you have to decide what it means to you. Personally I decided something similar to the above posters, that it's a tool for understanding the self and others, but also that it does not have to limit my behavior. In fact sometimes I act very "un-INTJ-ish". Anyway some people don't get to that level. They either sit back and are content with labels, sit back and deny the labels, or reach a level of technical understanding which isn't balanced by an understanding that people are more than functional behaviors. The best course of action is to find personal utility in the system, and in my opinion there is no "incorrect" application so long as one has thought deeply about it and doesn't try to claim their opinion as law.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  6. #6
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Thank you so much for your replies, i do appreciate it.



    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    It is in the nature of ExFJ's to want to question and understand the nature of social labels.


    Now what I want to know is do you find that first sentence helpful or irritating?
    Neither. I question and want to understand most things in life.

    EDIT - Isn't it classed as a wasteful mind, if we just accepted all we heard and read. Should one not question everything or am i just awkward?
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  7. #7
    The Duchess of Oddity Queen Kat's Avatar
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    It might be useful if you want to predict or explain someone's behaviour, but I don't believe it works on everyone. Some people aren't just that predictable and explainable. It's pretty much impossible to really label people with it.
    I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower. The TV was obviously on. I used to fly myself and I said, "There's one terrible pilot."
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    If you don't agree about my MBTI type, you can complain about it here. I've had plenty of people telling me I'm something else, in my reputation box. That's annoying.

  8. #8
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Thank you so much for your replies, i do appreciate it.





    Neither. I question and want to understand most things in life.

    EDIT - Isn't it classed as a wasteful mind, if we just accepted all we heard and read. Should one not question everything or am i just awkward?
    I think you are absolutely right and not awkward at all.

    Personally I like MBTI because it helps me get a head start on understanding people. I don't think anyone fits their type descriptions 100%, but those are a decent launching point. After that I have a framework for filling in the details and finding in which ways a person fits the stereotype and in which way they go against it. MBTI might be somewhat theoretical, but it fits the way I think about things.

    Also I want to apologize if you've seen a lot of derogatory comments directed at SJ's or ExFJ's or whatever. A lot of people here are just trying to learn about ourselves and others, myself included, and sometimes we can say things which are inaccurate and unintentionally hurtful.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post

    Also I want to apologize if you've seen a lot of derogatory comments directed at SJ's or ExFJ's or whatever. A lot of people here are just trying to learn about ourselves and others, myself included, and sometimes we can say things which are inaccurate and unintentionally hurtful.
    Thank you, although i think you apologising is totally unnecessary. People have opinions and have had some bad experiences with SJ's. Thats life.
    I no longer take it personally.

    I've had one bad experience with an NT, but i still have a lot of NT friends who are absolutely amazing. I try not to tar people with the same brush and also be aware that people have views that may differ from mine but still, it's all good.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Isn't it classed as a wasteful mind, if we just accepted all we heard and read. Should one not question everything or am i just awkward?

    You are far more diplomatic than I.
    Of course it's a wasted mind that accepts all that is heard and read.

    I think it was Jeffster who said it pisses him off when someone says:
    "You are type XXXX so your 4th function must be Se."
    I agree.

    It boggles the mind that someone would actually accept it.
    I guess some people see others like a carton of eggs: oval and white, or brown.

    How exciting.
    The future is for the unafraid.

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