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  1. #21
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    If you want to restrict yourself based on some abstract theory designed to divide people into 4-letter codes, knock yourself out.

    +1

  2. #22
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    It just came to me that an unhealthy J can view themselves as their P counter type. They have this image of who they think they are and they believe it to an extent that they try to be someone they are not.

    One thing that drove this was the folly of thinking men thread. How a type can believe themselves to be objective when they are really subjective. They will then always feel inferior because their pride and ego keeps getting hurt because they are truly subjective. What happens is they block their perception to objective data and in the process help them believe they are objective people furthering the idea that they are objective. Hence why J types have perception as either tertiary and inferior.

    ok, to try and get discussion I will stop before digging to much deeper.
    My 19 y o son has a friend who is ISTx. When I was asking him questions, he thought he was a P, but after thinking about it for a day, I think his behavior has been a lot more J in the past.

    The tricky part is that he thinks he is flexible and doesn't need to plan ahead of time, but when he talks, he definitely has a straight line of thought... decisions pre-made... The jury's still out on that one, but I'm thinking he's a J not a P.

    The trouble is that ISTJs are very relationship oriented, so he might be being flexible for the sake of relationship, when in fact, he'd prefer to have it decided ahead of time. I think my son and their 2 other close friends are all Ps... so that would have an influence.

    He might turn out to be a P... he just doesn't seem quite that casual... or as playful as the others.

  3. #23
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    If you want to restrict yourself based on some abstract theory designed to divide people into 4-letter codes, knock yourself out.
    I say the same to people who want to disprove the type designation I have at any one time*. As if a person without a life-long stable type wasn't a person at all, or something

    *2 types expressed in here during the last 2 years. That's a lot, yes, it's more than 1!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #24
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    I swear I got my INTP license legitimately.
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  5. #25
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I can tell you that I think Fi can make judgements based on logic, but its more of a subconcious judgement. An Fi types goes on "this feels right".
    Hmm I don't know if I agree with that. But Ti is my third strongest function. I think it is also dependent on whether Fi is your dominant or auxiliary. Fi for me is much more conscious than Ne which feels subconscious. I have more trouble analyzing my Ne than my Fi but for an INFP that might be different.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulateworld
    While your points here are fine, none of them contradict what I said and my original point still stands. Point being, FPs seemto overestimate their own logical abilities because they mistake personal feelings for logic--I didn't say anything about TPs and their ability to use or not use logic. I don't see many TPs claiming to be extremely in touch with their emotions; most of us acknowledge our weakness in this area--and yet, FPs still seem to think they're highly proficient in both emotional and logical thought, which most aren't.
    I can't say I agree with you. I don't see that many FPs claiming to be great at logic. I could maybe see many not acknowledging the importance of logic...but only in the same way some TPs don't acknowledge the importance of feelings.

    NFPs in particular are bound to go to great lengths to explain the reasons why they believe in and value what they do. Maybe that is what you interpret as overestimating their logic capabilities. But I don't think most do at all.

  6. #26
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    If you want to restrict yourself based on some abstract theory designed to divide people into 4-letter codes, knock yourself out.
    Abstract theories are, by definition, not rigidly restrictive, because they are abstract. None of this is empirical by any means; it's all just a thought exercise for the sake of expanding perspectives. When interpreted the way it's intended, it's very open to many different possibilities.

    Besides that, though, that's what INFPs always say when their individuality feels threatened.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    When interpreted the way it's intended, it's very open to many different possibilities.

    that's what INFPs always say when their individuality feels threatened.
    Sentence #2 contradicts sentence #1.

    If it's "open to many different possibilities" you wouldn't then say in your very next sentence: "That's what INFPs ALWAYS say."
    Clearly, you have a restrictive viewpoint of INFPs.

  8. #28
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Sentence #2 contradicts sentence #1.

    If it's "open to many different possibilities" you wouldn't then say in your very next sentence: "That's what INFPs ALWAYS say."
    Clearly, you have a restrictive viewpoint of INFPs.
    Can't you read Fe smiley language?

    It's a joke!
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Abstract theories are, by definition, not rigidly restrictive, because they are abstract. None of this is empirical by any means; it's all just a thought exercise for the sake of expanding perspectives. When interpreted the way it's intended, it's very open to many different possibilities.

    Besides that, though, that's what INFPs always say when their individuality feels threatened.
    The more I understand MBTI and dig the more I understand it and the more accurate it becomes. The key is that you must understand it yourself using external perception. Its not something that can be described using descriptions. It is based on concepts not detail or data. It is supported by what we do, but you must be able to pull out the concept and throw away all the internal and external perception that goes with it because that is the data, that drives the judgements.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Can't you read Fe smiley language?

    It's a joke!
    Not buying it, Sim. You have a long history of contradicting yourself in this forum.
    Here's more of your restrictive nonsense:

    FPs seemto overestimate their own logical abilities because they mistake personal feelings for logic
    Do you enjoy making up shit about people, or what?

    Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would know better than to make sweeping claims about so many different types of people like you do.
    I'm going to start calling you: Archie-fucking-Bunker.

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