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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    As for bolded part, I've actually seen that in Fi users (xxFP) types significantly more often than in any J type. They invariably describe themselves as "extremely logical" because they truly believe that their arbitrary feelings = logic. It's pretty silly at times.
    Yes and in support of my OP in IxTJ types with Fi they steer their perception so this isnt as noticeable. They prefer to stay on the subjects that they have learned that are objective, but they arent themselves internally objective. They run off of the detail in Si that is pulled in through Te blocking out parts of Ne that seem to cause Fi unwanted feelings. Its hard to pin down because its a circle that just magnifies until they reach a point in their life when they are forced to change.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Yes and in support of my OP in IxTJ types with Fi they steer their perception so this isnt as noticeable. They prefer to stay on the subjects that they have learned that are objective, but they arent themselves internally objective. They run off of the detail in Si that is pulled in through Te blocking out parts of Ne that seem to cause Fi unwanted feelings. Its hard to pin down because its a circle that just magnifies until they reach a point in their life when they are forced to change.


    I think you're onto something.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post


    I think you're onto something.
    WOOOOOHOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Im not crazy

  4. #14
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    [QUOTE=simulatedworld;872498
    As for bolded part, I've actually seen that in Fi users (xxFP) types significantly more often than in any J type. They invariably describe themselves as "extremely logical" because they truly believe that their arbitrary feelings = logic. It's pretty silly at times. [/QUOTE]

    Really? Lots o' other T-types agree with you, so I guess you've seen it, but I've never done this.

    I would never ever ever call myself extremely logical. Ever. Everything I say is, "Well... I think this, but.. that's just me, you know. And it has nothing to do with logic. It has to do with feeling. That's not to say I don't appreciate logic in others- and that's not to say I don't employ logic at times, but it's not my home turf, to be sure.

    I may be opinionated when it comes to my likes and dislikes and my expectations of myself, but I rarely shift that judgment to what I expect of others. (Not that that has to do with logic, but it does have to do with judgment and perception.)

  5. #15
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    As for bolded part, I've actually seen that in Fi users (xxFP) types significantly more often than in any J type. They invariably describe themselves as "extremely logical" because they truly believe that their arbitrary feelings = logic. It's pretty silly at times..
    Don't confuse your definition of "logical" with coherence. Feelings are no more arbitrary than the need to adhere to reasoned logic. You can't control feelings, but values don't just pop up out of the blue. Values are not arbitrary but a reaction to the things we see and experience. Logic is not arbitrary but a reaction to the things we see and experience. Coherence and congruence are the Ji user's way to make sense of both. There were always be mature and immature TPs and FPs. The use of the word "arbitrary" implies logic somehow can control anything. It can't. It's a loop over which Ts have as much control as we Fs have over our feelings.



    Obviously this is simplifying things since all Ts have F and all Fs have T.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Don't confuse your definition of "logical" with coherence. Feelings are no more arbitrary than the need to adhere to reasoned logic. You can't control feelings, but values don't just pop up out of the blue. Values are not arbitrary but a reaction to the things we see and experience. Logic is not arbitrary but a reaction to the things we see and experience. Coherence and congruence are the Ji user's way to make sense of both. There were always be mature and immature TPs and FPs. The use of the word "arbitrary" implies logic somehow can control anything. It can't. It's a loop over which Ts have as much control as we Fs have over our feelings.



    Obviously this is simplifying things since all Ts have F and all Fs have T.

    I can tell you that I think Fi can make judgements based on logic, but its more of a subconcious judgement. An Fi types goes on "this feels right".

  7. #17
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Yes and in support of my OP in IxTJ types with Fi they steer their perception so this isnt as noticeable. They prefer to stay on the subjects that they have learned that are objective, but they arent themselves internally objective. They run off of the detail in Si that is pulled in through Te blocking out parts of Ne that seem to cause Fi unwanted feelings. Its hard to pin down because its a circle that just magnifies until they reach a point in their life when they are forced to change.
    HANK HILL!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Don't confuse your definition of "logical" with coherence. Feelings are no more arbitrary than the need to adhere to reasoned logic. You can't control feelings, but values don't just pop up out of the blue. Values are not arbitrary but a reaction to the things we see and experience. Logic is not arbitrary but a reaction to the things we see and experience. Coherence and congruence are the Ji user's way to make sense of both. There were always be mature and immature TPs and FPs. The use of the word "arbitrary" implies logic somehow can control anything. It can't. It's a loop over which Ts have as much control as we Fs have over our feelings.



    Obviously this is simplifying things since all Ts have F and all Fs have T.
    While your points here are fine, none of them contradict what I said and my original point still stands. Point being, FPs seem to overestimate their own logical abilities because they mistake personal feelings for logic--I didn't say anything about TPs and their ability to use or not use logic. I don't see many TPs claiming to be extremely in touch with their emotions; most of us acknowledge our weakness in this area--and yet, FPs still seem to think they're highly proficient in both emotional and logical thought, which most aren't.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #18
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    While your points here are fine, none of them contradict what I said and my original point still stands. Point being, FPs seem to overestimate their own logical abilities because they mistake personal feelings for logic--I didn't say anything about TPs and their ability to use or not use logic. I don't see many TPs claiming to be extremely in touch with their emotions; most of us acknowledge our weakness in this area--and yet, FPs still seem to think they're highly proficient in both emotional and logical thought, which most aren't.
    If you want to restrict yourself based on some abstract theory designed to divide people into 4-letter codes, knock yourself out.

  9. #19
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    I have trouble figuring out if I am a J or a P because if you ask 20 people, you'll probably get 40 different answers...gahhh! Drives me nuts.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    HANK HILL!!!!




    While your points here are fine, none of them contradict what I said and my original point still stands. Point being, FPs seemto overestimate their own logical abilities because they mistake personal feelings for logic--I didn't say anything about TPs and their ability to use or not use logic. I don't see many TPs claiming to be extremely in touch with their emotions; most of us acknowledge our weakness in this area--and yet, FPs still seem to think they're highly proficient in both emotional and logical thought, which most aren't.
    Ok, to go against what you said I bolded the problem. I was gonna slam you, but will go about this nicely Something about it hit the wrong button. In an NF type Te is used to backup Fi. So yes they WILL use logic to back up feelings. I would like for you to back up your feelings with out trying to use logic. I am just curious if it can be done as Fi types also ALWAYS have Te.

    edit: Ok, I didnt fully explain myself to contradiction. Do not make Fi feel defensive and you wont have Te focused at you in that manner. So no its not type, but type relations.

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