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  1. #41
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    My ISFJ mom used to say about me and my ENTP dad:

    You guys just need a looooot of time for yourselves in order to function!

    It frustrated her to no end, she never could quite understand how it was I was able to sit in a couch and stare blankly in front of me without doing anything or moving. Worse, that I seemed to need it, and then complained about not having enough time to finish whatever I was supposed to do in the first place. It drove her bonkers that I was able to study only under great pressure, when I should've been in bed already, and do so little. She never did quite know if she should be happy or annoyed that I passed every damned time

    My father was exactly the same, and it drove her mad, as she never knew if they had agreed a week ago that today they were going to finish something in the house or whatever, he'd actually get to it and be in the mood for it
    ISFJ vs NTP is a fun pair that way. The cool thing is that traditionally they share functions (Si, Ti, Ne, Fe) so they can "learn" from each other if they aren't trying to manipulate/beat each other, but until then it gets a little funny to watch from the outside, they both do things so differently.

    ISFJ wants to be productive and work until the entire list is complete. It breaks all the To Do items into practical steps, then just plods methodically through them, and will not quit until everything is finished regardless.

    NTP actually needs space. It likes to "sit in stasis," experiencing and observing, as if to be free in case something interesting comes along. If forced to engage by circumstances, it will immediately leap into the fray and blitz through the problem. ENTP might be flightier and need to stay focused once the initial excitement dies down; INTP tends to push until the strategy for resolving the problem is resolved and then will quit. The Ji+Pe combo here means that on the outside the NTP will "play and dabble" rather than making a concerted effort while inside the NTP is calculating and thinking. INTPs do things on the surface to feed the internal process, so accomplishing things in the external world is not even the priority except as in how it informs the Thinking process and gives it more to figure out; ENTPs are less about getting to the end of an external process and more in just exploring it in toto.

    Needless to say, this drives the ISFJ batty and is seen as lazy.

    It also explains why "vegging" on the computer or TV is seen as lazy by ISFJs; if they do it, they are in total "veg-out" time and potentially also not doing their work they've made a list for. However, for NTP, this time when it looks like they are doing nothing, they are actually "working" -- they're exploring and collecting data, and internally processing it where the ISFJ cannot see.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #42
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    Problem with Ne is that it doesn't care what the time is, and needs fuel to get started. I find I need to warm up my brain in the morning before I can really get to work, but once it's going, it has a hard time stopping simply because it's 5:30pm. I used to get all kinds of credit from bosses for staying late at work, but really it was because I was hyperfocused and couldn't stop. There were other days I would have done anything to leave at 3.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Silly_Siren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel_Tunfel
    Problem with Ne is that it doesn't care what the time is, and needs fuel to get started. I find I need to warm up my brain in the morning before I can really get to work, but once it's going, it has a hard time stopping simply because it's 5:30pm....There were other days I would have done anything to leave at 3.
    A quote comes to mind at this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Emerson
    "I shun father and mother and wife and brother when my genius calls me. I would write on the lintels of the door post, Whim. I hope it is somewhat better than whim at last, but we cannot spend the day in explanation." Emerson Self-Reliance
    That's not to say N=genius, I just mean when N types are struck with inspiration that fuels their N, nothing else matters except this new vision. Whim is a good word to summarize people ruled by N.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    NTP actually needs space. It likes to "sit in stasis," experiencing and observing, as if to be free in case something interesting comes along. If forced to engage by circumstances, it will immediately leap into the fray and blitz through the problem. ENTP might be flightier and need to stay focused once the initial excitement dies down; INTP tends to push until the strategy for resolving the problem is resolved and then will quit. The Ji+Pe combo here means that on the outside the NTP will "play and dabble" rather than making a concerted effort while inside the NTP is calculating and thinking.

    It also explains why "vegging" on the computer or TV is seen as lazy by ISFJs; if they do it, they are in total "veg-out" time and potentially also not doing their work they've made a list for...
    I really liked the bolded phrase, but I agree with the whole post. I also find the part about Ji+Pe, very illuminating. I don't know if I think like NTP's, but I certainly feel like I am accomplishing more than is outwardly observable. I also find like ENTP's, I definitely need to focus when the initial excitement dies down. But that's probably a Ne thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith
    You guys just need a looooot of time for yourselves in order to function!
    Thank God you guys weren't introverts as well!


    I also agree with the people on there who talk about fantasizing to make S tasks more bearable. Everyone has said a lot of interesting things! I feel bad because the bulk of my post is quotation, but whatever!
    =universal solution

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silly_Siren View Post
    I feel bad because the bulk of my post is quotation, but whatever!
    Don't feel badly, this is one of the more useful threads I've seen here.

    I think most ENxPs do their best work when hyperfocused - completely engrossed for hours in whatever it is we're doing. And when we are in such a state, we will develop conclusions, ideas, and things no one else could ever think of. But you can't always rely on being hyperfocused, so you have to turn to things like to do lists and other Te sorts of tools to get things done.

    Good example is Edison, the ultimate ENTP. Light bulb was an off the wall idea at his time, not the sort of thing an ISTJ was likely to come up with. But at the same time he had to go through 10,000 iterations before actually making one - he needed discipline just as much as passion to complete the task.

    I find we do OK making lists and such as long as the fundamental work has a foundation of Ne, like an art project, an invention, whatever. But making lists to complete the same tasks as an ISTJ accountant will only make us question what we are doing.

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