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  1. #31
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Interesting thread.

    I think your description of Se reasonably describes how I may have felt when I was younger.

    However, I think I'm getting hung up on the word "projection" and in what context it is being used.

    As a practical example, it doesn't happen often, but when I see someone who is obsessively focused on what I perceive to be meaningless facts and details, I over-react to that person. I can judge them more harshly, become frustrated, overly-critical, and perhaps abrasive. It stresses me out. They hit my buttons. The way my brother impacts me is a perfect example of this. So, I'm responding to behaviors in someone else who is acting in a way that I do when I am at my absolute worst. The response is inappropriate to the stimuli. I generally think of Naomi Quenk's book, "Beside Ourselves", look at the eruptions of the inferior and see the projections through that lens.

  2. #32
    Member xX_Miss_Valentine_Xx's Avatar
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    ITP (fe): "...people are so easily manipulated and shallow. I can see how things really work, I couldn't possibly play along. Isn't anyone able to think for themselves?"
    IFP (te): "...individuals are so divided and discouraged, for such horrid impersonal reasons. I pay attention to how people feel, and that's more important than anything."
    ESP (ni) "...trying to repress your own instincts only serves to heighten them. why are people so frightened of what's right in front of their nose?"

    I agree with these three...despite the fact that having an inferior fe and te is kinda contradictory...

  3. #33
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    Hmm, interesting that the only one other than ITP I agree with is ETJ.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
    5 so/sp
    Chaotic Neutral/Evil

  4. #34
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xX_Miss_Valentine_Xx View Post
    ITP (fe): "...people are so easily manipulated and shallow. I can see how things really work, I couldn't possibly play along. Isn't anyone able to think for themselves?"
    IFP (te): "...individuals are so divided and discouraged, for such horrid impersonal reasons. I pay attention to how people feel, and that's more important than anything."
    ESP (ni) "...trying to repress your own instincts only serves to heighten them. why are people so frightened of what's right in front of their nose?"

    I agree with these three...despite the fact that having an inferior fe and te is kinda contradictory...
    Are you inclined to actually think any of those in day to day life, though? It's possible to agree with all of them if you perform enough mental backflips.
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  5. #35
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Interesting thread. To be honest I don't remember consciously having thought any of those things. They would be more like very negative "feelings", which rationally I would reject.

    I think part of the contradiction here is that a "philosophical orientation" is consciously set by a person and takes into account all kinds of things like our life experiences, our loyalties and our "ideology", whereas MBTI deals with ways of processing and communicating information.

    For example maybe once, when I was young and immature I would have felt/thought the "INXJ", the "IXTP" and the "IXFP" phrases, but now I am a historical materialist, I no logner think any of those things because I understand
    1.) The primacy of the material over the subjective, (negates the INXJ one)
    2.)Why people buy into bourgeois ideology and that this can't "simply" be overcome through rational persuasion, but also depends on objective circumstances, (negates the IXTP one), and
    3.)Why people are objectively divided by systems, and this can't be overcome just by "understanding", (negates the IXFP one).

    I still maintain that this approach is more "enneagram" style than MBTI style (which is not a bad thing, it's just that ennegram seems to me a more effective tool for this kind of analysis than MBTI).

    In short though, yes, I guess I am jumping into the thread and giving a "Marxist critique"...No apologies for that either.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  6. #36
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    "I don't have to persue my inferior function, look at what it does to the world..."


    ITP (fe): "...people are so easily manipulated and shallow. I can see how things really work, I couldn't possibly play along. Isn't anyone able to think for themselves?"
    IFP (te): "...individuals are so divided and discouraged, for such horrid impersonal reasons. I pay attention to how people feel, and that's more important than anything."
    I can see myself going in either direction, unsure of which (fe or te) is my inferior function. I do see people as being easily manipulated and shallow at times. And, yes, I refuse to play along with the nonsense.
    As for individuals being divided and discouraged for horrid impersonal reasons. Yes, I see that, too.
    People are easily manipulated and divided for horrid impersonal reasons...
    Hmmm...
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  7. #37
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    I can see myself going in either direction, unsure of which (fe or te) is my inferior function. I do see people as being easily manipulated and shallow at times. And, yes, I refuse to play along with the nonsense.
    As for individuals being divided and discouraged for horrid impersonal reasons. Yes, I see that, too.
    People are easily manipulated and divided for horrid impersonal reasons...
    Hmmm...
    Which are you more likely to think off-the-cuff, though? Consider situations you've been in when you were feeling particularly "insular".
    Hello

  8. #38
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    Or to relate it to my work environment.

    "You're treating the staff like they are just tools or machines. Of course they will be demotivated and discouraged. I pay attention to how people feel, and that's more important than anything."

    As you can see from my sig, my Te is way, way at the end of the process :P
    Now that's definitely inferior Te. Underdeveloped nonsense. Why would someone continue doing something that's ineffective? I'd assume the ESTJs have their Ne to show them a new possibility that doesn't seem so pointless.

    Management is necessary to get thing done. The world requires order to be productive, but there's a time and place for it. Perhaps that's the IxTJ view of extraverted thinking? I've come to learn that sometimes you have to throw Te to the wind and go with what might work rather than a pre-established plan. It's like a monkey swinging from tree to tree. You can envision which tree to go to next as it comes up, but you can't plan which trees to go to.

    Ne to me is more like, "Why do people have to keep jumping into the mess without thinking first? Order is more likely to reach our goal rather than muddling through chaos."


  9. #39
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    earlier post: I can see myself going in either direction, unsure of which (fe or te) is my inferior function. I do see people as being easily manipulated and shallow at times. And, yes, I refuse to play along with the nonsense.
    As for individuals being divided and discouraged for horrid impersonal reasons. Yes, I see that, too.
    People are easily manipulated and divided for horrid impersonal reasons...

    Off the cuff... I am more likely to think that people are easily manipulated and shallow. As an example, every now and then, I hear on the news about people who have lost their savings to some con artist who offered them great wealth in exchange for their bank PIN number. And they believed it, despite all of the warnings never to share that number with anyone, least of all a total stranger. Or I'll hear about someone who is mad because some stranger came to their house and offered to do some repairs after, of course, getting paid. The victim paid and no repairs were done. And, when the victim called the stranger's business, the phone was disconnected. OK. I understand that some crooks are very persuasive but still... it seems that people are too easily manipulated and separated from their money.


    Hmmm...
    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Which are you more likely to think off-the-cuff, though? Consider situations you've been in when you were feeling particularly "insular".
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  10. #40
    brainheart
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    The Fe one was the only one I absolutely agreed with.

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