The Abuse of Power

[Mole]

MBTI is a bogus personality test foisted by the military on those under their command, I repeat, under their command, during and since WW II.

And MBTI is a bogus personality test foisted by business on their employees, I repeat, on their employees, for about the same period of time.

And MBTI is a bogus personality test foisted on school children by the middle aged.

In each case those with power are foisting a bogus personality test on those without power, and in the case of the military, on those under their command.

But those in power have a duty of care to the vulnerable. But rather than exercising their duty of care they use their power to take advantage of the vulnerable.

This is called the abuse of power.

 

[Falling Snow]

Just because something is used to hold power over another doesn't mean in itself it is bogus. That is a basic logical fallacy.

People abuse power - people want to control others for a whole variety of reasons and motivations. They will use any means at their disposal - and I mean ANY. They will use personal traits from violence to sexiness; they will use tools from guns to push-up bras; they will use tactics from aggression to plotting and they will use the environment from incarceration to exile.

Anything can be used by those who seek to have and hold power over others.

MBTI is simply a tool - obviously limited and flawed in some ways, but that does not make it 'bogus'.

 

[slant]

MBTI is inherently flawed and completely bogus.

 

[Mole]

Just because something is used to hold power over another doesn't mean in itself it is bogus. That is a basic logical fallacy.

People abuse power - people want to control others for a whole variety of reasons and motivations. They will use any means at their disposal - and I mean ANY. They will use personal traits from violence to sexiness; they will use tools from guns to push-up bras; they will use tactics from aggression to plotting and they will use the environment from incarceration to exile.

Anything can be used by those who seek to have and hold power over others.

MBTI is simply a tool - obviously limited and flawed in some ways, but that does not make it 'bogus'.

It's nice to reply to your first post.

However MBTI claims to be a valid an reliable personality test. However any Psychology Department in an accredited University will tell you MBTI is an invalid and unreliable personality test.

They will also direct you to valid and reliable personality tests. And will point out to you that they only remain valid and reliable if they are administered by an independent qualified psychometrician.

So MBTI is not only a bogus personality test but the very way it is used makes it simply nonsense.

But it becomes sinister when you realise it is used by those in power against the vulnerable.

 

[Jaguar]

MBTI is inherently flawed and completely bogus.

Yep.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

They will also direct you to valid and reliable personality tests. And will point out to you that they only remain valid and reliable if they are administered by an independent qualified psychometrician.

What are the more reliable personality tests?

But it becomes sinister when you realise it is used by those in power against the vulnerable.

What do you mean with this statement? Who are the vulnerable? Do you mean those under the power of another? I probably agree with your basic sentiment here, but could use clarification.

 

[Falling Snow]

It's nice to reply to your first post.

However MBTI claims to be a valid an reliable personality test. However any Psychology Department in an accredited University will tell you MBTI is an invalid and unreliable personality test.

They will also direct you to valid and reliable personality tests. And will point out to you that they only remain valid and reliable if they are administered by an independent qualified psychometrician.

So MBTI is not only a bogus personality test but the very way it is used makes it simply nonsense.

But it becomes sinister when you realise it is used by those in power against the vulnerable.

The idea that something is given credence or not because of what Psychology professors say is laughable - psychology is the great pseudoscience of the disciplines. I don't agree that MBTI claims to be reliable - there are psychologists. coaches, etc who claim that but it is always wise to approach such claim critically - but simply to claim it is 'bogus' is just as uncritical as to say it is 'reliable'. Where human subjects are concerned, reliability is always limited whatever test, strategy or assessment is concerned.

I am not defending MBTI as universally credible and actually the term 'personality' is mistakenly applied here because it is more usefully understood in terms of preference - and 'temperament' is quite different to personality.

I repeat myself - it's people who are sinister - psychology, psychotherapy, religion etc are all systems popularly abused by people who wish to have power over others. Far more soldiers are manipulated by Jesus or Mohammed than by MBTI I suspect.

I think the danger of getting interested in MBTI is when you imagine that the categories are universally similar - a short spell on one of the type-specific forums should dispell that illusion - however, there are definite 'flavours' which are intriguing (the intp forum and infp forums are a useful comparison to make this point).

I'd love to see a reliable and valid 'personality test' - can you tell me one?

 

[527468]

MBTI is a helpful tool for me, thus not bogus. It's not any sort of ultimatum on typology. Maybe that's what you're looking for.

 

[VagrantFarce]

MBTI is a bogus personality test foisted by the military on those under their command, I repeat, under their command, during and since WW II.

And MBTI is a bogus personality test foisted by business on their employees, I repeat, on their employees, for about the same period of time.

And MBTI is a bogus personality test foisted on school children by the middle aged.

In each case those with power are foisting a bogus personality test on those without power, and in the case of the military, on those under their command.

But those in power have a duty of care to the vulnerable. But rather than exercising their duty of care they use their power to take advantage of the vulnerable.

This is called the abuse of power.

thanks for the tip, bro

 

[Poki]

MBTI is inherently flawed and completely bogus.

It is not, flawed does not mean it has no truths. Define completely bogus. Its not my fault if you dont know how to apply it yet.

I explained it to my mom as not the thought, but the thought process.

 

[redacted]

I get that you think you're doing the right thing Victor, but people just dismiss what you say since you have an attitude of extreme condescension.

You seem to think that every cog in a system has the same motivation. Yes, most of the time, the cogs at the top are incentivized to maintain their power and gain more. But that doesn't mean the cogs below them have anything like the same motivations.

How would it benefit those at the top of the military to use MBTI tests on soldiers? I really don't understand. Just sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

Anyway, I've already explained my view of MBTI to you (just a set of descriptive verbal shortcuts, not prescriptive at all), and don't see how it falls prey to any of the arguments you've made. You seem to assume that no one except you is capable of thinking for themselves or thinking critically. And because of that assumption, your audience turns away from you and writes you off as a condescending asshole.

So, look...I get that you think you're doing the right thing. Spreading the word of truth, etc. But wouldn't it be more efficient to come down off your high ground and interacted with the points people are making? At least then you'll show people you make an effort to understand them.

 

[Mole]

How would it benefit those at the top of the military to use MBTI tests on soldiers?

Psychologically it is hard to kill living human beings. That is why the military goes to a great deal of psychological trouble to reify the enemy. That is, the military turns living human beings into things so that they may be more easily killed.

And the best way to reify the enemy is to first reify your own people. For when they start to think of themselves as things, it is a very short step to thinking of the enemy as things.

And the very purpose of MBTI is to reify. It was created to induct women into the war machine during WW II. And so, as you notice, it appeals to women just as astrology does. And in helping women to reify themselves and others it, gives women a false sense of agency and power. MBTI is highly seductive - and it works.

MBTI was the original empowerment of women - taking them out of the home and into the war machine.

And today MBTI makes us cogs, not only in the war machine, but in business as well.

And all these school girls and school boys, still emotionally and financially dependent on their parents, taking MBTI in like mother's milk.

 

[tinkerbell]

This is called the abuse of power.

I've never been in any environement where I was TOLD I had to do MBTI, I've done the test fully about 6 times... always with a choice to 1. doing it or not, 2. doing it but not sharing it etc

Legally speaking I don't beleive organisations need to insist on people doing it. Army perhaps

Wide generalisation there...

 

[Mole]

I've never been in any environement where I was TOLD I had to do MBTI, I've done the test fully about 6 times... always with a choice to 1. doing it or not, 2. doing it but not sharing it etc

Legally speaking I don't beleive organisations need to insist on people doing it. Army perhaps

Wide generalisation there...

Look Tink, I don't think there is any chance the military will abandon MBTI. But I do think that if you and I bury our differences, we can improve the situation 100%.

We can improve the situation simply by persuading the military to include astrology and Wind in the Willows along with MBTI.

In this way we can save face all the way round. The military saves face over MBTI. And you and I save face over astrology and Wind in the Willows.

And Mr Badger is content that we have all adopted his superb solution.

 

[Falling Snow]

It was created to induct women into the war machine during WW II. And so, as you notice, it appeals to women just as astrology does. And in helping women to reify themselves and others it, gives women a false sense of agency and power. MBTI is highly seductive - and it works.
.

Could you please provide some evidence to back up these claims - it sounds very interesting and I'd like to explore that further.

Thanks

 

[INTJ123]

well then, we must crush the military, government, and corporations so we can use mbti for peace.

 

[Bushranger]

Let me just say that I once applied to the military. They rejected me on the basis that my personality was not a good fit.
I have no idea what tests they used, it was a long time ago now. I'll say this: In hindsight, they were right to reject me, I'm glad they did.
I would have hated the military.

 

[Falling Snow]

Let me just say that I once applied to the military. They rejected me on the basis that my personality was not a good fit.
I have no idea what tests they used, it was a long time ago now. I'll say this: In hindsight, they were right to reject me, I'm glad they did.
I would have hated the military.

I assume that being INTP you would have questioned every decision, thought for yourself and seen the illogic of war. I wonder if INTPs are automatically discarded by the military ... hmm

What type is the ideal soldier?

 

[Bushranger]

I assume that being INTP you would have questioned every decision, thought for yourself and seen the illogic of war. I wonder if INTPs are automatically discarded by the military ... hmm

What type is the ideal soldier?

I think the tests in question were looking for more specific traits than MBTI gives. But yes I think a few of my personal traits that commonly fall into the INTP profile, were the reason for the rejection.

I'm not sure what they considered to be the perfect soldier. Every military defines its own mandate, and it is largely a function of the type of people that are in charge.

 

[Mole]

Enchantment

well then, we must crush the military, government, and corporations so we can use mbti for peace.

Mate, mate - we gotta be reading from the same page. So I'll tell ya what we're up to and indeed what principle we will invoke.

And the principle we will call on is simply, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em".

So we have decided to join MBTI with our own magic, namely astrology and, "Wind in the Willows".

There are some who claim this is a, "Wind in the Willows", takeover. But nothing could be farther from the truth.

For Badger has pointed out to us all in no uncertain terms that we all need to work together. And as unpalatable as that may be for some, we remember it is for the common good.

And indeed it was Mole himself who said that magic cannot cancel out magic. So he said, stroking his whiskers, why don't we add magic to magic and then we will get triple magic - MBTI, astrology and, "Wind in the Willows', all dancing in the magic circle together.

So rather than crushing them, we have decided to enchant them.