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  1. #91
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    This thread should be canned as S = N and in any case MBTI is simply a guide not the truth and people are unique individuals with their own permutations

  2. #92
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    As a heavy N, I often thought standardized tests were written for me personally, while my daily classroom instruction was designed for other people. Not surprising so many Ns get labeled as "underachievers".

    I had a HS girlfriend who was ESFP and got better grades than I did, but whose SATs were nearly 400 points lower. I was amazed at how quickly she could finish her homework without her parents nagging her, she was amazed at how quickly I could understand Trigonometry concepts without opening the textbook or paying attention in class. If you took her grades and my SATs the combination would have easily gotten into Harvard. But we both ended up frustrated for different reasons. She used to say I was just not trying hard enough and was spending too much time with pothead friends, I used to tell her she just needed more practice with standardized tests. Our problems would have been far easier to solve if we, our parents, or our teachers understood MBTI at the time.

    I think a lot could be gained if schools paid more attention to N-S learning styles, instead of falling into the easy trap of overdiagnosing ADD while labeling many Ss as overachievers. Moreover, it tells you something that testing and teaching are so out of line with one another.

  3. #93
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Game, set, match.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdielK View Post
    Agree, at the end of the day we all add to the broth in our different ways. I love sensors because they enjoy life so much more.
    Definitely. I have noticed that I take more pleasure in the simple things of life than the N's I know.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    Definitely. I have noticed that I take more pleasure in the simple things of life than the N's I know.
    Yes, but without us Ns you wouldn't have had the inventions and revolutions that allow you to now enjoy the simple things.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    This is not anti S thread.
    I am simply trying to put some light on why sensors are so often disliked among some intuitives.


    During my everyday life my intuition is constantly out of control. So I am almost never in "here" and now mode. Plus my mind constantly creates new ideas and concepts. Or I am trying determine what will be happen in the future and why will happen what will happen. I simply can stop with this activity. (for the most part)


    However I can try to focus on my senses and I usually manage to stay in this mode for a shot amount of time.
    However when I do this there is no more : guessing what the future holds. (especially not on the scales of billions of years)

    There is no deep philosophical arguments all over my mind. Mountains and landspaces look as mountains and landspaces instead as remains of some ocean that no longer exists. Or remains of strong tectonic activity that ended 270 millions of years ago. Plus there is no entire entire "space and time" thing.


    Instead of this I have a normal street with parked cars and rain that is falling for the last 2 hours infront of me. I don't know about the other Ns but this is so much simplier existance. However if we look and rate thing by book this is the world of sensing.

    So when a strong N comes into this world everything seems so simple but extremly limited. What means that sensors are narrow minded for the most part since they live like this through most of their lifes.


    Comments ?
    I don't think sensors are stupid. However, I have encountered so many that are shockingly simple and narrow minded - and on top of that have the audacity to criticize me for being "weird" or "caring about stuff that doesn't matter" (because everyone knows that having a perfectly organized desk drawer matters soooo much more than contemplating the nature of humanity) - that, yeah, I do think some are stupid in an almost unforgivable way. But it's largely to do with a life lived with their constant attacks on me for being different than they are. I think a lot of the nastiness toward sensors on-line is misplaced aggression Ns suffer from being attacked/surrounded by Ss IRL.

    For the record, I'm often attracted to SPs and I think that people who are too N are impractical and unrealistic. So I'm not S bashing at all.

  6. #96
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel View Post
    Yes, but without us Ns you wouldn't have had the inventions and revolutions that allow you to now enjoy the simple things.
    I guess so. I'm sure a few S's were involved in those inventions too.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    I guess so. I'm sure a few S's were involved in those inventions too.
    Well, it's kind of true. Ns think outside of the box. It's exactly that sort of unconventional, "weird", or day-dreamy type thinking that leads to new inventions and technology.

    That isn't to say that Ss aren't involved, but the N mindset - while it may seem almost handicapped at times in terms of executing hands on activities - is crucial to brainstorming the future.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    This is not anti S thread.
    I am simply trying to put some light on why sensors are so often disliked among some intuitives.


    During my everyday life my intuition is constantly out of control. So I am almost never in "here" and now mode. Plus my mind constantly creates new ideas and concepts. Or I am trying determine what will be happen in the future and why will happen what will happen. I simply can stop with this activity. (for the most part)


    However I can try to focus on my senses and I usually manage to stay in this mode for a shot amount of time.
    However when I do this there is no more : guessing what the future holds. (especially not on the scales of billions of years)

    There is no deep philosophical arguments all over my mind. Mountains and landspaces look as mountains and landspaces instead as remains of some ocean that no longer exists. Or remains of strong tectonic activity that ended 270 millions of years ago. Plus there is no entire entire "space and time" thing.


    Instead of this I have a normal street with parked cars and rain that is falling for the last 2 hours infront of me. I don't know about the other Ns but this is so much simplier existance. However if we look and rate thing by book this is the world of sensing.

    So when a strong N comes into this world everything seems so simple but extremly limited. What means that sensors are narrow minded for the most part since they live like this through most of their lifes.


    Comments ?
    What you dont realize is that N cannot exist without S. So S cannot exist without N.

    Its just backwords. Sensors use senses to build intuition and intuitors use intuition to build sensory data. Even in this case, its more along the lines of using Ne to build Si and Se to build Ni. Now do you spend more time building what you believe or believing what you build. And you flip those around to Ni Se and Si Ne.

    I think intuitors have misplaced or dont understand there S side. The funny thing is that it(their S side) has alot to do with their natural tendencies because its in the same direction as there dominant function, so it is possible for an N to actually use S more than N.

    Edit: if you are trying to be S and just use sensory data you are missing half the idea of being S.

  9. #99
    Member tetsuwanatom's Avatar
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    Discussing intelligence of N vs. S seems, to me, pretty off the mark.
    Let's not even discuss the definition of intelligence that we're using as a benchmark to compare N and S, but look at N and S themselves.

    Ne and Ni are themselves quite different functions; as well as Se and Si.
    To me this sounds like, e.g., discussing which continent is a better representation of "intelligence": Europe vs. Asia, where Europe is represented by 2 diverse countries like Britain and Estonia, and Asia by Japan and Israel.

    In addition to this, only half of all the 16 MBTI types are characterised by people who are S/N dominant. I would have thought if it's a discussion of intelligence, it would have made more sense to discuss the T/F judging functions, instead of the S/N perceiving functions.

    In MBTI, everyone is characterised by four functions. It seems to me quite silly to say to myself that the S or N part of my personality preference is the "stupid" part, and that some people are just more "stupid" than other because they happily traverse from t=birth to t=death using more of their "stupid" function than their "clever" function to understand themselves and the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    This is not anti S thread.
    During my everyday life my intuition is constantly out of control. So I am almost never in "here" and now mode. Plus my mind constantly creates new ideas and concepts. Or I am trying determine what will be happen in the future and why will happen what will happen. I simply can stop with this activity. (for the most part) [....] Plus there is no entire entire "space and time" thing.
    I think Se at its best also takes the person out of the "here" and "now" mode. When Se is at its best, there is no here and now, there is only the continuous unstoppable flow of what is and what is becoming. I think you can see this very easily in the performance arts and, I suspect, also in many stream-of-consciousness writings.

    How is being or NOT being in "here" and "now" or "space and time" anything to do with intelligence?
    And why do you assume "entire space and time thing" the realm of intuition?
    As far as I know, whether you like it or not, you're pretty much stuck in space and time whether you call yourself N, S, T, F, X, Y or Z.


    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Sensors are stupid because they start with the same letter.

    N stands for nowledge.
    LOL!!!!!!!!!
    [Kierkegaard: either/or] At the moment of choice, he is at the point of consummation, for his personality is consummating itself, and yet at the same moment he is at the very beginning, because he is choosing himself according to his freedom. As a product he is squeezed into the forms of actuality; in the choice he makes himself elastic, transforms everything exterior into interiority. He has his place in the world; in freedom he chooses his place---that is, he chooses this place

  10. #100
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    I have noticed that I take more pleasure in the simple things of life than the N's I know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel View Post
    Yes, but without us Ns you wouldn't have had the inventions and revolutions that allow you to now enjoy the simple things.
    How do you invent the sound of a child laughing, or the mesmerizing hues of a sunset?
    The simple things in life were never invented by anyone.

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