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  1. #21
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Ne and Ni are not separate functions. There is the function N, and then a preferred direction on a spectrum of introversion to extroversion.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Ne and Ni are not separate functions. There is the function N, and then a preferred direction on a spectrum of introversion to extroversion.
    I like to think the direction comes first. Ni = intuition of introversion (introverted intuition), not introversion of intuition (intuitive introversion). So it's more of introversion and extroversion that are the functions, and the four dichotomies come after. This is my standpoint at least.

  3. #23
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I hope you now realize why I have opened this thread.

    We simply have too much contradictions going around.

  4. #24
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    I found the function order to be bogus for me as well. I believe, like many others here, that the first two are usually accurate and can help you figure out your type and be informative. But Beebe's order left much to be desired, imo. Eric B has done extensive research into this as well, if you didn't know. Here is a quote from the 'archetypes' thread:

    But outside of those situations, we are free to use the processes, in any context, and without worrying that they might be "ego-syntonic" or "preferred" and that thus we must be mistyped. They processes are not rejected by the ego; they simply are undifferentiated. This frees us from having to force all of the processes into archtypes every single use, or conclude that Ne preferring egos somewhow reject current senses.
    What many of us have gotten caught up in is what I now call "HyperBeebeanism". (Beebe's theory itself is valid, but this interpretation of it is being taken beyond ["hyper-"] its practical use). I've had two observers describe it to me in terms of a "set of rules" on personality and functions. It sought to explain practically every move we make through the eight archetypes. When I saw this, it looked fascinating and elegant, so I grabbed it and tried to fit into it myself and use it with others. But now I see that it is just not working completely for anybody (I even framed an informal "test" on it, ETB's Ultimate Lucky Eight Archetype test! with very poor results).
    That's why I changed my sig. I prefer Ni/Fe. But I use the other function on a whim, if you will, when I need them.

    As for functions tests, I agree with others--I find them completely unreliable at the least, and downright misleading at the most. If someone would just make a lengthy functions order test it would be really cool! Although that won't stop someone from being subconsciously biased anyway.........
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  5. #25
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Shadow functions (the four apart from your preferred ones) are not exercised directly.

    Sometimes you may think you are seeing, say, Si from an ENFJ, but it's really just the ENFJ's Ni resembling it.

    As for the order of the primary four, some people lack development of the secondary or tertiary, so for instance if you see someone who appears to be Ti-Si it's probably an INTP with underdeveloped secondary Ne.

    Most of the weird combinations are just regular types with weird functional disorders that result in some sort of clear unbalance.

    Once again, you prove to me you have no consistency of thought.

    Do not make me find your old post where you agreed with me,
    that predetermined function orders are bullshit.
    Now you sound like the poster boy for MBTI.
    Make up your mind.

    I happen to agree with the OP.
    One of the first warning bells that went off for me was this ridiculous notion of symmetry.
    To know people, is to know complexity.
    The thought of this symmetrical paint-by-numbers approach is more than I can bear.

    Excerpt from the workbook, Functions of Type:

    [...] due to life circumstances, the amount of development does not follow either pattern.
    Following are some of the circumstances that could influence the amount of development:

    During childhood (about 312 years of age)
    1. There was negative feedback when the dominant was being used
    2. Family life called upon a nonpreferred function to be used in order to survive (e.g., an alcoholic or abusive parent or sibling)
    3. There was positive feedback for using nonpreferred functions

    Later in life
    4. Chosen jobs required extensive use of nonpreferred functions
    5. Parenting skills demanded use of nonpreferred functions.

    In any of these situations it may be difficult to determine the type preferences of the person;
    thus, the pattern of development for that person may also be unclear.

    ------------------


    All of that should already be known by anyone.
    Our childhood environments are so complex, varying from person to person,
    that to suggest if you score type XXXX that your function order is:

    1
    2
    3
    4
    5
    6
    7
    8

    is absolutely laughable.

    The functions we use at any given time are like poetry in motion, a dance if your will.
    It's a sense of fluidity.
    Our own willingness, or unwillingness, to accept such a rigid and unforgiving theory,
    says more about who we are as a person, than the theory itself.

    Food for thought.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I hope you now realize why I have opened this thread.

    We simply have too much cuntradictions going around.
    "cuntradictions."

  7. #27
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I hope you now realize why I have opened this thread.

    We simply have too much cuntradictions going around.

    haha! good eye, jaguar.


    Freudian slip, AO? getting enough?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  8. #28
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I hope you now realize why I have opened this thread.

    We simply have too much contradictions going around.
    Given the premisse of course everyone is from the same plane of perception
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    SW, I dunno enough about the theory to really have an opinion on this. Btw, my post was in jest, in case you didn't notice

    And, I'm sorry, but the description of Ni does fit me like a glove. When Ni-users talk about how and why they use it, I'm not as adept as they are, but I do 75 percent of that as well. I really doubt that's Ne filling in. Could be though. I dunno.

    Whoever is right, it would be nice though, if I could ask these questions and maybe be wrong, without you rolling your eyes at and making fun of those that, like me, ask such questions though
    How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop? The world may never know

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Ne and Ni are not separate functions. There is the function N, and then a preferred direction on a spectrum of introversion to extroversion.
    Ok, lets take it to N function level. Ni is intuition based on what you know, Ne is intuition based on what you see. So you can seperate them and it is possible for one to be concious and the other subconcious. Ne types have the first subconcious function as Ni. So it is the dominant subconcious function.

  10. #30
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    How many licks does it take to appease a cuntradiction?
    Haha, poki!! The world may never know

    but it'd be fun to find out.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


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