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  1. #11
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Shadow functions (the four apart from your preferred ones) are not exercised directly.

    Sometimes you may think you are seeing, say, Si from an ENFJ, but it's really just the ENFJ's Ni resembling it.

    As for the order of the primary four, some people lack development of the secondary or tertiary, so for instance if you see someone who appears to be Ti-Si it's probably an INTP with underdeveloped secondary Ne.

    Most of the weird combinations are just regular types with weird functional disorders that result in some sort of clear unbalance.
    +1

    i also think that the primary side as conscious and the other side as unconscious is a helpful distinction. right brained (p) and left brained (j) make a lot of sense to me in my mb analysis of myself and others (extraverted perception vs introverted perception).

    i think the apparent (auxilary alternative) of Te for an infj's Fe is more a haphazard combination of Fe-Ti looking somewhat similarly, i can never truly use Te to anything that is more than a remote resemblance. i can never completely table Fe, so it doesn't work simultaneously. i think the stress of the inferior is a very real and present problem for many people as well. tertiary as relief makes sense too, altho i think tertiary is capable of so much more personality definition than just a relief function (but supportive only, as awareness and balance from the first two functions swells)

  2. #12
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    function order is not a linear thing. we just line them up, to make abstract speech possible (like "everyone's third function ... is the opposite of ...."). we could just assign any number or letter (a,b,c) to any function. the question is not the "strength" or "position" of the functions, but the role it plays, in the dancing formation of the bunch.

    for a lot of people, their shadow is more apparent than their second function, especially if they misunderstand their first and second function in such a way, that they conceptualize them as a single function (for example TiNe plus shadow-Fe could be conceptualized (misinterpreted) as Ni + [Te/Fe] )

    (in this post, I use the term shadow as carl jung did, who clearly associates a Fe shadow with Ti types, and by shadow - in this context only - he means something that rules your live like an archaic god who enslaves you. you consciously follow the commands of the commanding domain, but can't alter the attitude of the commander because you dont own it)

  3. #13
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Ok, but what is the point in taking function tests then?
    Absolutely nothing. They are literally total bullshit because they don't test your shadow functions, only your natural functions' ability to imitate them in a problem-solving environment.

    And yet you get people running around saying OMG MY FI, FE, NI AND NE ARE ALL EQUAL CUZ THIS FUNCTION TEST SAID SO!!! which is absolutely retarded.

    Function tests are even worse than basic type tests--all of them are bullshit.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #14
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Absolutely nothing. They are literally total bullshit because they don't test your shadow functions, only your natural functions' ability to imitate them in a problem-solving environment.

    And yet you get people running around saying OMG MY FI, FE, NI AND NE ARE ALL EQUAL CUZ THIS FUNCTION TEST SAID SO!!! which is absolutely retarded.

    Function tests are even worse than basic type tests--all of them are bullshit.
    *kicks SW*

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  5. #15
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Think about it, Amargith.

    These tests purport to test the way in which your brain perceives problems...by simply asking you how your brain perceives problems.

    Don't any problems with that seem to jump out at you?

    (HINT: It depends on self-report.)
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #16
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    I think the order makes sense (and by order, i'm mostly talking about function roles, not amount of usage...) if you take the directions off.

    So an ESTJ is T, S, N, F... those functions tend to go in alternating directions, but not always, especially after the 2nd. If T is really really extroverted, Ti might be 5th or 6th in terms of usage in the 8 function order. If T is barely extroverted, Ti might be 2nd.

    Check out my type calculator.

  7. #17
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I think the order makes sense (and by order, i'm mostly talking about function roles, not amount of usage...) if you take the directions off.

    So an ESTJ is T, S, N, F... those functions tend to go in alternating directions, but not always, especially after the 2nd. If T is really really extroverted, Ti might be 5th or 6th in terms of usage in the 8 function order. If T is barely extroverted, Ti might be 2nd.

    Check out my type calculator.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Ti might be 2nd.

    Check out my type calculator.
    Who's first? HP? Casio? Microsoft (Start->Run->Calc)?

  9. #19
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Huh?

  10. #20
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Think about it, Amargith.

    These tests purport to test the way in which your brain perceives problems...by simply asking you how your brain perceives problems.

    Don't any problems with that seem to jump out at you?

    (HINT: It depends on self-report.)

    SW, I dunno enough about the theory to really have an opinion on this. Btw, my post was in jest, in case you didn't notice

    And, I'm sorry, but the description of Ni does fit me like a glove. When Ni-users talk about how and why they use it, I'm not as adept as they are, but I do 75 percent of that as well. I really doubt that's Ne filling in. Could be though. I dunno.

    Whoever is right, it would be nice though, if I could ask these questions and maybe be wrong, without you rolling your eyes at and making fun of those that, like me, ask such questions though
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