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  1. #1
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Default S vs N Distinction ?

    S = Uses concepts to support reality
    N = Uses reality to support concepts

    Discuss/Expound/Criticize.

    NOTE: These are not necessarily my beliefs. I'm just starting discussion, to see what people come up with.
    Last edited by Bellflower; 10-18-2007 at 03:26 PM.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member snegledmaca's Avatar
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    I think it's a P vs. J thing. Perceiving types use concepts to explain their perceptions, while Judging types use reality to explain their rationalizations. Or something like that.

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    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what you mean, what you define as the difference between 'concept' and 'reality'. Personally, I don't see the sensory world as reality, though I think that's what you mean by it - I see reality as all the shit that goes on between, behind and beneath - the causes of what we see, hear, smell etc, while the sensory evidence is just symptomatic of reality.

    An ISTJ I know, however, quite emphatically sees reality as what he can sense with his senses, and all the stuff he reads or talks about, regarding what underlies these things, he sees as symptomatic of the physical reality. I mean, he's far more likely to attribute a personality flaw to say, a chemical imbalance in the brain (something physical), whilst I'll attribute it to some erroneous perception, falsely joined dots in the person's head, a faulty understanding of what exactly it is that he's seeing.

    Not sure if that answers the OP in the way you envisaged...
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    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    S = Uses concepts to support reality
    N = Uses reality to support concepts

    Discuss/Expound/Criticize.



    Seriously though, I think this should be more about attitude. That is to say that Xi and Xe would fit the definition better.

    That is, Ni = Uses reality to support concepts; Ne = Uses concepts to support reality... just as Si= Uses reality to support concepts; Se = uses concepts to support reality.

  5. #5
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    A true N doesn't live in reality but invents his own reality. The thing is, though, that the N doesn't see this as a bad thing.

  6. #6
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    None of the above.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean, what you define as the difference between 'concept' and 'reality'. Personally, I don't see the sensory world as reality, though I think that's what you mean by it - I see reality as all the shit that goes on between, behind and beneath - the causes of what we see, hear, smell etc, while the sensory evidence is just symptomatic of reality.

    An ISTJ I know, however, quite emphatically sees reality as what he can sense with his senses, and all the stuff he reads or talks about, regarding what underlies these things, he sees as symptomatic of the physical reality. I mean, he's far more likely to attribute a personality flaw to say, a chemical imbalance in the brain (something physical), whilst I'll attribute it to some erroneous perception, falsely joined dots in the person's head, a faulty understanding of what exactly it is that he's seeing.

    Not sure if that answers the OP in the way you envisaged...
    It's interesting that the two of you attribute it to one or the other, and not both or several factors that could be involved. I tend to think 'N's- see possibilities whereas 'S''s tend to limit possibilities.

  8. #8
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    S = Uses concepts to support reality
    N = Uses reality to support concepts

    Discuss/Expound/Criticize.
    Too simplistic. I think N's can structure reality after a concept, and see the concepts underlying it to begin with. S's would tend to see their perception of sensory reality as it is, and either adapt to it spontaneously (Se), or adapt to an example of how it should be (Si).

    Ni -- Generates insight and looks at situations from different perspectives.

    Si -- Creates an internal map of how reality should be based on life experiences.

    Ne -- Gathers patterns and connections from the environment, and readily sees every possible course of action from a given situation and perspective.

    Se -- Gathers sensory data about the environment, and experiences everything in the present context.

    Do those make sense?
    Last edited by Athenian200; 10-18-2007 at 06:37 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    It's interesting that the two of you attribute it to one or the other, and not both or several factors that could be involved. I tend to think 'N's- see possibilities whereas 'S''s tend to limit possibilities.
    I didn't mean to suggest that I believed the difference I described between mine and the ISTJ's perceptions of reality were directly because of S and N differences. I just thought of the most S-ish person I'm closest to, and then thought about any massive or fundamental differences between our worldviews, and wrote them out, not neccessarily thinking that was the answer, but more perhaps a key to one door on the way to the answer.
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