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  1. #1
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Default Opposing judgment functions- how do they work for you?

    Title says it all. Here is a link to the processes for a reference- Cognitive Processes

    __FJs- How does Fi manifest in you (or it's lack thereof)? How does it clash with Fe? Explain, how do you disvalue it? What about Te?

    __TPs- How does Te manifest in you (or it's lack thereof)? How does it clash with Ti? Explain, how do you disvalue it? What about Fi?

    __FPs- How does Fe manifest in you (or it's lack thereof)? How does it clash with Fi? Explain, how do you disvalue it? What about Ti?

    __TJs- How does Ti manifest in you (or it's lack thereof)? How does it clash with Te? Explain, how do you disvalue it? What about Fe?
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Happyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Title says it all.
    __FJs- How does Fi manifest in you (or it's lack thereof)? How does it clash with Fe? Explain, how do you disvalue it? What about Te?
    I'm Fe dominant, yet have a quite strong Fi. They clash quite often.
    I have a deep need to seek compromise and harmony with other people (Fe). On the other hand I have quite a strong set of personal beliefs and a deep need to stand promptly beside them. Every time I follow the first (seeking harmony) I later feel as if I have cheated on myself.
    My high school class was made of very conservative people, so I had these problem many times. I think I go with Fi much more often now, than I did being, let's say 15.
    Also strong Fe makes you question your personal beliefs if you're around people who have beliefs in strong opposition to yours, so it's a real pain in the a** some time, because I feel I need to spend some time alone, regroup and make sure I still believe what I believed. Same goes for personal goals, being very Fe, makes you listen to people that are close to you, so it takes some serious discipline to follow your chosen path (Fi). I'm a writer from a family of successful business people, so I know what I'm talking about.

    (cool thread! made me put to words something I was only intuitively feeling and through this realize it better - thanks! )
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  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    TPs- How does Te manifest in you (or it's lack thereof)? How does it clash with Ti? Explain, how do you disvalue it? What about Fi?
    Te is one of my worst functions. (probably position 6-7).

    To me, it feels like crushing all of the life out of my Ti and putting it in a little streamlined box so I can use it to do things. Put another way, it feels like taking this beautiful wild stallion that is freely galloping through nature and slapping a harness on it and putting blinders on it and beating it so that it no longer runs free on its own all so I can make it pull a stupid little plow and dig furrows with it and make money off crops.

    (Note: I'm not saying that's WHAT it is, I'm saying that's how I personally feel and why I take a dislike to it. It feels like neutering and hamstringing my Ti, turning it inside out, and using it as a slave.)

    However, I see that it is essential in order to get things accomplished in life. There have been times I HAD to shut everything down and just get the task accomplished in order to succeed in life and even survive.... so I did. Te is horribly effective at getting to the end of something.

    Fi, meanwhile, is like an abyss under my feet, it's like throwing myself into the open air and space, expecting to fly. What proof do I have of that? Ti tells me the true state of everything, it all makes sense it's verifiable, I just 'see' it. Fi is amorphous, ambiguous, so subjective me that I can't tell if I am half-crazy or whether my instincts make any sense whatsoever. There's nothing to validate the feelings, and I'm always terrified they will let me spiral down to crash upon the canyon floor.
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    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    The thing is, both Ti and Te are essentially sides of the same function. So the fact that I call myself a Ti user just means that I lean towards introversion with thinking. My thinking tends to be quite introverted, meaning my Te gets much less use than an average person.

    In terms of tangible effects, I have pretty bad common sense, and have a really hard time pointing to external evidence for the conclusions I draw. I usually just remember what I thought in a given situation rather than the situation itself, because I tend to build on my own thoughts instead of updating my premises as the environment updates itself. This is not to say my thinking is never extroverted; it definitely is sometimes, mostly in tasks where I know basically nothing about what's happening. In those circumstances, relying on Ti gets me nowhere (although I do it anyway lots of the time, which is why I'm slower at new tasks than most). Sometimes I'll ask a bunch of questions and try a couple of things out so that I can get my Ti working, but when stuff is mundane, I usually just go with what's obvious.

    My Fi probably gets even less use than Te. Since Ti dominates much of my introverted world, it pushes introverted value judgments aside. And since I have to make some value judgments, Feeling tends to live in the extroverted realm. I have a really hard time seeing why anyone would make value judgments without making sure all environmental variables are accounted for, because values depend so heavily on situations. I have a really hard time even accepting a value judgment before I've spent lots of time figuring out relations of things around me; what's the point of going in depth if I miss something? I'm sure Te users would say the same thing about introverted thinking

    So overall, I push my Fi down both because my Ti takes up a lot of the same kind of processing space and because it doesn't seem useful to me to make value judgments that don't follow along with environmental factors.

  5. #5
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    __TJs- How does Ti manifest in you (or it's lack thereof)? How does it clash with Te? Explain, how do you disvalue it? What about Fe?[/SIZE]
    My Ti is actually higher than my Te, so my function order is kinda screwy. Basically, I use Ti to see what fits and does not fit in a given situation, and make adjustments over time (it's sort of a unique mix of Si and Ti). It clashes with Te when I want organization or when I need a decision made quickly.

    Fe is my lowest function, pretty much unused.

  6. #6

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    My Te is pretty strong. But as is typical it has a limited scope in where I use it.

    Where I use it most is in organizing my learning objectives and achieving my life goals. I also use Te in design and enginerring activities. I like my schematics and code to be neat and organized (as well as "correct-by-design").

    Other than for that, I am horribly disorganized, and suck at medium term planning. Projects always take much longer than I expect. (I am reasonably good at the really short term, like what I am going to do in the next hour to the rest of the day. I think I am much better at long term planning...like setting and achieving life goals, as mentioned above)

    I haven't really had my Te clash with my Ti much. It generally plays the "Back-up" role more than the "Opposing" role.

    I value all my functions. That is one of the side-effects of learning about them.

    Of course, that does not mean I try to develop them all equally. My Ti is the CO. My Ne is my XO. The rest are the crew.

    As for my Fi, I have a tumultuos relationship with it. Sometimes it gets me really depressed, but usually that depression is fruitful in making life changes and reexamining my priorities.

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  7. #7
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyman View Post
    Also strong Fe makes you question your personal beliefs if you're around people who have beliefs in strong opposition to yours, so it's a real pain in the a** some time, because I feel I need to spend some time alone, regroup and make sure I still believe what I believed.
    Hmm...actually I relate a bit to this, but it's more that I don't have super strong beliefs on a lot of things, so it's easy then for me to question my own beliefs when I hear different perspectives or get new input (although there are a few things I won't budge on), and also don't put a huge amount of stock in the notion of belief systems anyway, due to their very subjectivity and the fact that every single person in existence has their own set of beliefs that they hold fast to, so I tend to do the 'Well, I believe such and such, and I have good reason for my beliefs. But person Y believes the opposite, and HE may have good reason for his beliefs. Neither of us is 'right' or 'wrong' per se, although I might THINK I'm right, even though HE thinks HE's right...so my thinking I have a good basis for my beliefs means squat....everything's subjective, blah, help!! '

    So I'd say my ability to see these multiple perspectives, as well as the very ephemeral nature of many beliefs, makes it difficult for me to understand Fi well, or to cling to my own beliefs very tightly. I'm always curious about new information/viewpoints, other societal frameworks, human nature itself and how/why we believe what we believe, and where that comes from....and frankly, the fact that many believe what they believe simply because it's what they grew up to believe, without actually contemplating the why's as to why they believe what they believe, and dissecting/analyzing all of it is, well, retarded to me. ha.

    I know there are many other facets of Fi/Fe that I could comment on, but that would make for a long post. I'll stick with this piece. And I freely admit I may not really grasp Fi and what it means as a cognitive function, and that what I've said above isn't solely gonna tie to Fi - this is just my perception.

    As for Te, I don't know that I have much of a comment on it. I don't think it's something I utilize terribly well, but I'm not opposed to it really. That 'mode' just isn't what I tend to prioritize in life, and out of life.
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  8. #8
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Fi =/= beliefs. Not sure where that came from, or how someone's personality could be dominated purely by beliefs (Fi dom). I'd say Fi covers your own judgment of things, your own subjective view of the situation or person, based entirely on you, and FJs just don't really seem to like doing this or expressing this side of them. But eh, whatever. I'll add a link to some basic cognitive processes definitions into the OP.

    Anyways, Fe for me is strange, I only really want to accommodate for those who I care for's needs and emotions. I also don't really care about someone's emotions unless I have some sort of connection to them (or I force myself to), and if I do have some sort of connection to someone then I always enjoy fixing their problems or giving suggestions for help, but if I don't care, none of that really happens. And I am quite an apathetic person. When I see people going way overboard with emotion or being way too sympathetic it irks me.

    The concept of the "Fe attack" is absolutely foreign to me, it never even occurs to me to guilt trip someone or manipulate their emotions to get what I want.

    Plus, if I see that someone is nice to everyone, how can I know that they actually like me, and they aren't just being nice?

    Fe is the function that I score the lowest on.

    I think that all of this was instilled by my ENFJ mom.

    As for Ti, it's sort of strange. If I ever have to really use logic it usually comes from Si and Te, Ti is virtually unused for me. I don't like to collect information just for the heck of it, it's sort of difficult for me to notice logical inconsistencies right off the bat, and even then I don't know anything specific, but I get this feeling that something is wrong with what the person just said. Then I analyze it and eventually figure it out.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  9. #9
    Senior Member Liminality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Fi =/= beliefs. Not sure where that came from, or how someone's personality could be dominated purely by beliefs (Fi dom). I'd say Fi covers your own judgment of things, your own subjective view of the situation or person, based entirely on you, and FJs just don't really seem to like doing this or expressing this side of them. But eh, whatever. I'll add a link to some basic cognitive processes definitions into the OP.

    Anyways, Fe for me is strange, I only really want to accommodate for those who I care for's needs and emotions. I also don't really care about someone's emotions unless I have some sort of connection to them (or I force myself to), and if I do have some sort of connection to someone then I always enjoy fixing their problems or giving suggestions for help, but if I don't care, none of that really happens. And I am quite an apathetic person. When I see people going way overboard with emotion or being way too sympathetic it irks me.
    I guess...Fe takes from the 'e' world, the external world of emotions, in the more extream cases feels the feelings of others stronger than their own, like there's a very weak sense of self, emotionally, and/or it picks up on others emotions and tensions strongly. Being hypersensitive to the environement on the outside.
    In that respect a strong Fe would be more sensitive to aggression from others than strong Fi.

    external feeling
    internal feeling

    Think of it like...typical enneagram type 2(w3), to a leser extent 9.

    Hmm, "Fi =/= beliefs. Not sure where that came from, or how someone's personality could be dominated purely by beliefs (Fi dom)." I think by 'belifes', "internal set of values" is ment.

    "I only really want to accommodate for those who I care for's needs and emotions. I also don't really care about someone's emotions unless I have some sort of connection to them" Imagine feeling a sense of emotional connection - willing and unwilling - to everyone.
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  10. #10
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liminality View Post
    Hmm, "Fi =/= beliefs. Not sure where that came from, or how someone's personality could be dominated purely by beliefs (Fi dom)." I think by 'belifes', "internal set of values" is ment.
    Again, that isn't all that Fi is. It's just a result of one of the processes that Fi does... I don't really have a strong set of internal values. I do have values (probably not as many as some others do), but these aren't really what Fi is.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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