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Thread: ISTJs v INTJs

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    I call shenanigans here, as an istj, I question, debate, and research all of my professors claims, the N superiority complex on this form rears its ugly head yet again, my room is a mess, I wait to the last minute on projects and homework, and I love debating theory, yet Im still an istj.

    The difference, when it comes to logic and understanding issues between the two, deductive reasoning is used more by the istj and inductive for the intj. This difference here accounts for many other differences you can find between the types. Si vs Ni, Si dealing with memory, storage, of facts, thus builidng up, and Ni which is an empty bucket which then later fills itself in.

    Some people on here take the mbti as a personal bible and blow things to cookie cutter levels.
    Anecdotal arguing is so S.

    This type of question really only lends itself to "cookie cutter," highly generalized responses. In answering questions like these, I'm not going to preface every statement with "on average." Of course such responses aren't going to account for specific differences among individuals. On the whole, INTJs are going to be more curious and inquisitive than ISTJs. Are there ISTJs who are inquisitive and wait until the last minute to do things? Sure, but I'd argue that (e.g.) it pains the majority of ISTJs to wait until the last minute to make plans.

  2. #12
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    I call shenanigans here, as an istj, I question, debate, and research all of my professors claims, the N superiority complex on this form rears its ugly head again, my room is a mess, I wait to the last minute on projects and homework, and I love debating theory, yet Im still an istj

    The difference, when it comes to logic and understanding issues between the two, deductive reasoning is used more by the istj and inductive for the intj. This difference here accounts for many other differences you can find between the types. Si vs Ni, Si dealing with memory, storage, of facts, thus builidng up, and Ni which is an empty bucket which then later fills itself in.
    As for the N part, classic ISTJs have Ne.

    Raz (ISTJ) has an excellent description of how he uses Ne, and the INTJ vs. ISTJ difference in general:

    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I had this same issue when I started getting into MBTI. I couldn't tell if I was an INTJ or ISTJ. I grew up working on computers, so I was surrounded by NTs everywhere. I would be surprised if my habits weren't NT-like. Part of the problem of figuring it out is easily confusing other things for being an N. Extreme introversion can be confused for being intuitive, because people equate inuitive at times with aloofness. I can easily get lost in my head, but does that necessarily mean I'm lost in abstract thought? No.

    You can easily confuse ISTJs also because of Ne. However, you have to realize that Ne is intuition focused outward and Ni is focused inward. Ni is more conceptual in nature, and it focuses on ideas and theories concerning systems of thought. Ne is intuition of the extraverted kind, which means that it's focused on external possibilities. Ni asks, "How can I make an effective hot dog and stand what will it require?" Ne asks, "What potential income does this hot dog stand have in terms of customers coming over a certain time period?"

    Being an NTJ and STJ means that your life is also structured. You plan things out. Ni makes a plan, but draws out a vague plan of what is necessary to be accomplished. Si looks at everything necessary to be accomplished, the requirements of each one, and how to plan it out sequentially. For example, an NTJ will say, "I need to go pay the phone bill, go to the gym and buy a present for a friend tomorrow." An STJ will say, "I'll go to the gym in the morning. I can pay the phone bill before have lunch at 12 PM, then after that, I can go shopping in the afternoon."

    Like I said, Ni draws out bigger plans. Si wants exactitude. That's why their plans are more specific. There's more to elaborate on but my eyes are closing. I'll post more tomorrow. It's really about telling the difference between how abstract vs. concrete you are.
    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    Si dealing with memory, storage, of facts, thus builidng up, and Ni which is an empty bucket which then later fills itself in.
    Yes, this makes me VERY scatter-brained compared to the ISTJ's way of thinking. I start out with an empty bucket, and then attempt to fit the bucket into my larger, existing framework of the other full buckets. Once I discover the connection, I can begin filling out the insides. The ISTJ does the exact opposite: they seek out the inner materials, and select the exacting bucket as soon as they have enough.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  3. #13
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    My main point is that you'll find more errors by judging type on behavior than on the cognitive functions which seperate the two, So if we are to look on the "inside" which was where the rest of you agreed that the source of divergence existed , and the case between with these two, it would be si or ni, inductive and deductive logic.

    Behavior is what we observe on the outside, not what goes on the inside of our minds, and such is an important distiction in regards to self analysis, which the peron who submitted the op is an ixtj, thus the point of the op.

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    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    As for the N part, classic ISTJs have Ne.

    Raz (ISTJ) has an excellent description of how he uses Ne, and the INTJ vs. ISTJ difference in general:





    Yes, this makes me VERY scatter-brained compared to the ISTJ's way of thinking. I start out with an empty bucket, and then attempt to fit the bucket into my larger, existing framework of the other full buckets. Once I discover the connection, I can begin filling out the insides. The ISTJ does the exact opposite: they seek out the inner materials, and select the exacting bucket as soon as they have enough.
    I've read that post as well, again I'm just making clear the distinctions between behavior and cognitive functions, as to help with the most precise source of divergence, to best assist the op in her own decision / self analysis.

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    Now, what's all this jazz about buckets?

    *visualizes an exploding empty bucket*

    *visualizes an imploding full bucket*
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #16
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Now, what's all this jazz about buckets?

    *visualizes an exploding empty bucket*

    *visualizes an imploding full bucket*
    ha ha, a weird metaphor that came to me in my sleep deprived delirium

  7. #17
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    My main point is that you'll find more errors by judging type on behavior than on the cognitive functions which seperate the two, So if we are to look on the "inside" which was where the rest of you agreed that the source of divergence existed , and the case between with these two, it would be si or ni, inductive and deductive logic.

    Behavior is what we observe on the outside, not what goes on the inside of our minds, and such is an important distiction in regards to self analysis, which the peron who submitted the op is an ixtj, thus the point of the op.
    Typing someone on behavior is more complicated than what many give credit to. We can perform an atypical action, because we reasoned through use of our preferred functions, that this is an ideal decision. For example, someone decides to purchase a new house through extensive research and careful planning.

    Yet to entirely assume the person is an ITJ, would be discarding all the cognitive processing that went into this choice. For all we know, he or she could be an ESFP with an extremely seasoned tertiary Te, and inferior Ni, and ultimately desires to build a beautiful house (Se) that inspires an exhilarating, inner feeling (Fi).

    *Edit: Adding more thoughts to your post. Not a correction.

    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    I've read that post as well, again I'm just making clear the distinctions between behavior and cognitive functions, as to help with the most precise source of divergence, to best assist the op in her own decision / self analysis.
    Noted. I've also included the quote for the OP's information, to add another ISTJ's perspective of the ITJ differences.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  8. #18
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Typing someone on behavior is more complicated than what many give credit to. We can perform an atypical action because we reasoned through use of our preferred functions that this is an ideal decision. For example, someone decides to purchase a new house through extensive research and careful planning.

    Yet to entirely assume the person is an ITJ, would be discarding all the cognitive processing that went into this choice. For all we know, he or she could be an ESFP with an extremely seasoned tertiary Te, and inferior Ni, and ultimately desires to build a beautiful house (Se) that inspires an exhilarating, inner feeling (Fi).


    .

    you do have a point in regard to behavior, though, in this instance with the distance that Si and Ni have between the two types, (and I wasn't going to discredit op's own findings of ITJ), si/ni usually ends up being the tie breaker to help discern such.

  9. #19
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    you do have a point in regard to behavior, though, in this instance with the distance that Si and Ni have between the two types, (and I wasn't going to discredit op's own findings of ITJ), si/ni usually ends up being the tie breaker to help discern such.
    Definitely. I was highlighting the issues of typing on behavior alone, not necessarily in the case of discerning between two MBTI types.

    *Edit: For those who are following and the OP, see how I'm jumping around to a new, but conceptually-related topic? And how Cogdecree is replying directly to the given topic?
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  10. #20
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Definitely. I was highlighting the issues of typing on behavior alone, not necessarily in the case of discerning between two MBTI types.
    my apologies, I just reread it, I was too tired to even notice that you agreed on the post, I'm predicting a soft matress and a pillow in my immediate future.

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