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Inferior Se

VagrantFarce

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Nov 19, 2008
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What is it?? WHAT DOES IT DO?! i don't know! :confused:

(seriously, how does it show itself, or not show itself, in INJs? It seems to be the only function and order combination I don't have a good grasp of yet. The best I've heard is that it turns you into a sensotard, but then how do you discern that from just not having Se in your four functions?)
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
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Mar 29, 2008
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3,621
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548
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sp/sx
Check Berens' Understanding Yourself and Others: A Guide to the Personality Type Code. Someone once linked to one of those books on Scribd, and I just checked, but can't find any of them. That one gives a good summary of inferior Se.
 

poppy

triple nerd score
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intj
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5
According to Typelogic.com:

"Sensing serves with a good will, or not at all. As other inferior functions, it has only a rudimentary awareness of context, amount or degree. Thus INTJs sweat the details or, at times, omit them. "I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts" could well have been said by an INTJ on a mission. Sensing's extraverted attitude is evident in this type's bent to savor sensations rather than to merely categorize them. Indiscretions of indulgence are likely an expression of the unconscious vengeance of the inferior."


There's probably more to it, but I'm having a hard time coming up with anything at the moment. I've heard it described as the aspirational function, and it seems like many INXJs take up sensory-oriented activities like riding motorcycles (or sometimes heavy drinking). In myself I see it occasionally as a fall back when Ni-Te doesn't solve a problem, and I choose to ignore details and plans and just "wing it", addressing the problem moment-by-moment. The rest of the time, when it isn't enabled, I have very little awareness of what's going on around me.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
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Apr 23, 2007
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I have noticed with my INxJ certain peculiar fears that they have that I don't know how to chalk up. I've assumed they've been related to inferior Se, which in turn magnifies their extraverted judging. Here are a couple of examples:

Earlier this summer, we had several very powerful thunderstorms come through the area. One of my INFJ friends was in a completely tizzy because she believed a tree would fall on her car. She left work early one day in particular to move her car. The other days, she worried incessantly about a tree falling on her car.

The same INFJ says she wishes she didn't have to eat, that she could just open up her stomach and shove food in. She says she likes to eat, but not because of the taste...she just likes to chew.:huh:

Another time, the INFJ went on a mad frenzy trying to find a plastic mattress slip cover because she was afraid bedbugs would infest her mattress. Not unreasonable, but her fervor was pretty hilarious.

The INTJ has less pronounced quirks, but he also has some obsession with acts of nature especially and being unprepared for some freak occurrence.

This somewhat looks like inferior Ne, but I notice that the fears tend be rooted in lack of control of the external physical environment and that it will overtake them or something the care about and they won't be equipped to handle it. They don't have that aesthete or connoisseur air that I typically associate with pronounced Si-doms.

So these are my real life examples of inferior Se.
 

poppy

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Protean, those are some great examples. I think Enneagram 5 (possibly 4s too, but I couldn't be sure) INXJs especially have a fear of not being prepared for uncontrollable external events, but I had somehow not connected this with inferior Se.

I have this need to be prepared for every possible contingency when I drive anywhere 30 minutes or more from my house. I write out several sets of directions for how to get there and back (in case of traffic) or to other places in the area. I tape it to the console in lieu of a GPS :D I also leave myself insane amounts of time before I go anywhere, just in case something comes up (luckily this means I am rarely late :D). Once I'm driving, I relax, but the preparation for it can be a little nutty :laugh:
 

Tyrant

New member
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Aug 15, 2009
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181
MBTI Type
INTP
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5
greenlightwiki.com said:
As an inferior function, Se often leads INJs in either (or both) of two directions: to shun everything of a bodily nature as corrupt and animal (e.g. Immanuel Kant), or to crave "letting loose" and table-dancing or delivering some serious violence.

In the grip of the inferior function, they try to make others feel weak by displays of physical power (or trying to get others to compare themselves with physically powerful people), but usually end up only making themselves feel like helpless bugs. "See how POWERFUL I am? See my ANIMAL MAGNETISM?" Some get into guns or karate, taking an off-kilter delight in fantasies of getting into a confrontation with someone and surprising the hell out of them with the damage they can do (see Taxi Driver). Some idolize jazz musicians as people who are completely in touch with their animal selves, able to "let go". Some join academic cliques where the object is to make other people feel unpopular by snubbing them for not being up on the latest intellectual fashions--a sort of faux popularity contest, where the wider social standards are reversed and the most unintelligible gibberish gets the most attention.

Some use esoteric jazz or modern art to make a twisted marriage of Ni and Se: "It might sound like an incoherent mish-mash of notes to you, but that only shows that you lack the finer discernment of the really cool people." A different way, perhaps the genuine reunification with the inferior function, is to find an unconditional pleasure in "the now" and a peaceful, live-and-let-live philosophy--enjoying each moment, "being present" no matter what comes.

.
 

Valuable_Money

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679
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ENTP
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5w6
In the grip of the inferior function, they try to make others feel weak by displays of physical power (or trying to get others to compare themselves with physically powerful people), but usually end up only making themselves feel like helpless bugs. "See how POWERFUL I am? See my ANIMAL MAGNETISM?" Some get into guns or karate, taking an off-kilter delight in fantasies of getting into a confrontation with someone and surprising the hell out of them with the damage they can do (see Taxi Driver).


First thing that comes to mind is Ahnold(commonly typed INTJ)"

"LOOK AT MY MUSCLES OR I WILL TERMINATE YOU!"
 

527468

deleted
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
I like how they organized the function roles here, but there are better sites out there

The 16 Type Patterns

I've always looked pretty immature when using Se. Ygolo gave a good example of his friend's inferior Se by noting there was a lack of plan involved, and something about being lost in a subway station and freaking out. I can't remember it all in detail really, but this site does an alright job trying to explain it, and I relate to what it says. I know there is more detail written on these somewhere.
 

zago

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Jun 25, 2008
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1,162
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INTP
As an inferior function, Se often leads INJs in either (or both) of two directions: to shun everything of a bodily nature as corrupt and animal (e.g. Immanuel Kant), or to crave "letting loose" and table-dancing or delivering some serious violence.

In the grip of the inferior function, they try to make others feel weak by displays of physical power (or trying to get others to compare themselves with physically powerful people), but usually end up only making themselves feel like helpless bugs. "See how POWERFUL I am? See my ANIMAL MAGNETISM?" Some get into guns or karate, taking an off-kilter delight in fantasies of getting into a confrontation with someone and surprising the hell out of them with the damage they can do (see Taxi Driver). Some idolize jazz musicians as people who are completely in touch with their animal selves, able to "let go". Some join academic cliques where the object is to make other people feel unpopular by snubbing them for not being up on the latest intellectual fashions--a sort of faux popularity contest, where the wider social standards are reversed and the most unintelligible gibberish gets the most attention.

Some use esoteric jazz or modern art to make a twisted marriage of Ni and Se: "It might sound like an incoherent mish-mash of notes to you, but that only shows that you lack the finer discernment of the really cool people." A different way, perhaps the genuine reunification with the inferior function, is to find an unconditional pleasure in "the now" and a peaceful, live-and-let-live philosophy--enjoying each moment, "being present" no matter what comes.

This one seems very accurate to me for a particular INTJ I know. Very, very smart, but always talking about willingness to fight people, or how he is bigger than most and can take them.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
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4w5
For some reason, I think of this when I think of Se:

[youtube="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhFV5-qbbIw"]Donkey Kong[/youtube]

Don't know if that makes any sense, though... I think it might be what Se looks like to me through the filters of Ni, Fe, and Ti.
 

527468

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Oct 22, 2008
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I feel sorry for that plumber, but yes I like this analogy. It fits some Se themes, like awareness, reactivity, and status enhancement.
 

cascadeco

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What is it?? WHAT DOES IT DO?! i don't know! :confused:

(seriously, how does it show itself, or not show itself, in INJs? It seems to be the only function and order combination I don't have a good grasp of yet. The best I've heard is that it turns you into a sensotard, but then how do you discern that from just not having Se in your four functions?)

Ok, so I haven't read any of the other responses, and I'm not going to post a cognitive function blurb from the internet either. ;)

I'm gonna give you a slant on how I see inferior Se in a positive, healthy manner, within myself.

Actually I think it ends up being a pretty substantial element to what I'll call my life philosophy and the 'foundation' of my path. It means in the back of my mind, I'm always wanting to live life to the fullest, I'm wanting to embrace new experiences/sights/sounds, these new things excite me and bring zest to my life, and every now and then I feel quite stagnant, and need to shake things up - and often Se is an element required that enables me to 'let go' and overcome my fears and live in the moment, even if momentarily, and embrace the simpler, more elemental aspects of life.

On the more negative end, yes, I can relate to in the past vacillating, at times, between a more Immanuel Kant-esque view of things and shunning/scoffing at a lot of materialistic things and tangibles, vs. just letting go in the name of having fun and drinking a lot. ha.
 

Lethe

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The INTJ has less pronounced quirks, but he also has some obsession with acts of nature especially and being unprepared for some freak occurrence.

This somewhat looks like inferior Ne, but I notice that the fears tend be rooted in lack of control of the external physical environment and that it will overtake them or something the care about and they won't be equipped to handle it.

Great post. :)

Protean, those are some great examples. I think Enneagram 5 (possibly 4s too, but I couldn't be sure) INXJs especially have a fear of not being prepared for uncontrollable external events, but I had somehow not connected this with inferior Se.

I have this need to be prepared for every possible contingency when I drive anywhere 30 minutes or more from my house. I write out several sets of directions for how to get there and back (in case of traffic) or to other places in the area. I tape it to the console in lieu of a GPS :D I also leave myself insane amounts of time before I go anywhere, just in case something comes up (luckily this means I am rarely late :D). Once I'm driving, I relax, but the preparation for it can be a little nutty :laugh:

:laugh: Sounds very familiar.

=============================

Hmmm... Although I consciously prefer Si over Se, due to ease of control, I think I'm considerably better at Se in actuality. I distrust extroverted sensing enough to avoid going along with the first immediate opportunity, without extensive planning. My major fault lies within over-planning to maneuver past these unexpected obstacles.

Having completed the Fi development, I am currently working on trusting (and strengthening) extroverted sensing, because even if I disregarded my impulses, they will subconsciously appear into my decisions anyway. I could never think in a linear Si manner, and Se is shown when I do pull off excellent results, as I allow myself to think at the spur of the moment. (Imagine being told all your life the best way to plan daily is to schedule every single minute!) Despite inferior Se being helpful, I still instinctively reject it. (Except when I use it to crush my opponents in sports and debates.)

I'm looking into the STP mindset, specifically fellow Chart-The-Course ISTPs, for assistance in deriving the most of Se, in a manner that can effectively advance my decision-making style.

Since I've expanded on Se, I found it much easier to interact with the sensing population. I underestimated how much they relied on reading visible ques and what's happening now.
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
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Great thread! I have the book by Naomi Quenk about inferior functions, but somehow the descriptions were vague enough to not really resonate; what has been said in this thread really feels like my experience. I hadn't thought INFJ fit 100% partly for this reason, but now that incongruency has been resolved. :) So I'm about 95% confident I'm INFJ with Ti sufficiently developed as to act like an auxiliary.
 

greenfairy

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I relate to the following:

Lack of details: Ni and Ti or Fe produce a thought, and the connections will seem solid and obvious in my mind, but when Se tries to put it into words everything seems all muddled. Like, why can't I just draw you a picture?

Fear of lack of control of the external world:
I am somewhat obsessed with preparation for disaster, and preparation in general. I really enjoy it. I like researching methods of being self sufficient, sustainable, environmentally friendly, and ever more efficient (and saving money).

Fears:
I am afraid of quite a lot. Failure, physical danger, mysterious things in the dark like ghosts, the government, uneducated country people coming after me, fundamentalist religious people coming after me, to name a few. I used to have recurring dreams about tornadoes and having to hide, and I still have dreams of getting caught in floods and deep water. I distrust doctors and avoid them.

Dualistic relationship with the body:
I am both attached and detached from my body. I'm a lot more comfortable with it than I used to be, but physical things still seem weird to me sometimes. Physical intimacy in particular was something I had to get used to. I've never consciously believed that sensual things were bad, but I know the feeling was there in my unconsciousness. Consciously I try to refute this attitude because it's not healthy. Philosophically, I try to strike a balance between asceticism and hedonism, like Epicureanism (the use of reason is the key), or just aim for moderation. Excess has always been something I've had a strong negative reaction to; I want to make all my decisions consciously, especially those of a sensual nature.

I also relate to learning to live in the moment and the other positive things [MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] mentioned, and my development of Se I'm sure has helped me have a lot of fun with the SP's.

Another thing which hasn't been mentioned is high sensitivity to sensory stimuli. I always know if music is playing in stores and restaurants, and it can easily get annoying because I can't ignore it. Strong smells really bother me, including incense. Irritations in clothing can become very distracting. Someone humming or singing while I'm trying to think is very distracting. Sometimes people talking loudly really hurts my ears, and other loud noises which don't bother other people are painful to me.

On the positive side I'm very observant, and I've been described as physically graceful.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
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Jul 24, 2008
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Great thread! I have the book by Naomi Quenk about inferior functions, but somehow the descriptions were vague enough to not really resonate; what has been said in this thread really feels like my experience. I hadn't thought INFJ fit 100% partly for this reason, but now that incongruency has been resolved. :) So I'm about 95% confident I'm INFJ with Ti sufficiently developed as to act like an auxiliary.

Agreed.

You seem to be very into exercise. Has this always been the case, or is it a more recent development? Are you ever interested in the competitive aspect of it?

For me, when I engage in something physical (which is rarely, but this should probably change), I am indifferent to the competitive aspect, and am incapable of taking this too seriously.

I wonder if this is a Si trait. My dad's an ISTJ, and apparently in high school, he was pretty good at swimming, but he never talked about this or bragged about it. (I also haven't seen him swim in a while, but that's probably because of things that aren't related to type.)
 

greenfairy

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Agreed.

You seem to be very into exercise. Has this always been the case, or is it a more recent development? Are you ever interested in the competitive aspect of it?

For me, when I engage in something physical (which is rarely, but this should probably change), I am indifferent to the competitive aspect, and am incapable of taking this too seriously.

I wonder if this is a Si trait. My dad's an ISTJ, and apparently in high school, he was pretty good at swimming, but he never talked about this or bragged about it. (I also haven't seen him swim in a while, but that's probably because of things that aren't related to type.)
Yes, and yes. Being good at and competent at physical things has always been one of my greatest pleasures. I haven't really had the follow-through to be competitive at things until recently (too much ADD E-7 stuff), but I've always fantasized about it. I'm getting to the point where I could be. But really it's just about always becoming better, because I like being able to do things.

That's funny, I never really understood just not caring about stuff like that.
 
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