The roots of Introvertedness and Extravertedness

[Oaky]

Whether MBTI has anything to do with genetics or not, I'm doubting I or E has anything to do with genes.
So to help find the roots...
Extraverts, why do you like to stay around people?
Introverts, why do you not like to stay around people?
I hope non will give any shallow answers such as "I like my privacy".
I would just ask back "why do you like your privacy?". Try going deepest you can.

 

[BlackCat]

Introversion and extroversion are based in biology.

I'm really not sure on any of the neurological terms, but people apparently have a tube or something that information that we perceive is processed in.

When I say information, I mean anything, literally any sort of input to your brain.

Introverts have a more narrow tube, meaning that the information we process is processed slower. The information goes through us a lot slower, resulting in us not gathering as much information at once but the information we do process is more understood more in depth since it goes through us in more time.

Extroverts are the opposite, they have a wider tube. They can process a lot of information at once that they perceive, but it goes through faster, so they may have a less thorough understanding of it.

So because of this, introverts will get tired from all of the work that our brains do to process information since I suppose it just takes more time and energy. Extroverts keep their brain energized by interacting and taking in new information somehow, I suppose because it doesn't tire them to process it, and the more that they perceive a certain kind of information the more of an understanding that they will have. This is why extroverts "think by talking" since, it takes more information flowing through them to come to more complete thoughts.

Introverts get energized by reducing the amount of information we are taking in because it allows our brain to rest.

This is at least what I've read. I haven't taken neurology or anything like that, I just read something on the internet about it and it seemed to make sense.

 

[Phantonym]

Introverts, why do you not like to stay around people?

It's not that I don't like to stay around people when there's something interesting going on but after a while it starts to take up so much of my energy that I just have to get away to gather some. It's nothing personal most of the time but if I can't get away, I get really irritable and snappy. I do feel that it's an invasion of privacy but it's not about me not wanting to share myself, it's about me not wanting to share myself when it's expected or forced.

When I'm around people for a longer period and there's no way to escape that by finding a peaceful corner somewhere I almost feel myself exiting my body and my mind wanders far away, with the sound of the conversation echoing from somewhere far away. Communication is a two way road and I'd feel very awkward and rude by sitting with people trying to talk with me and I'm looking like I'm having my teeth pulled. So, it's better for myself and for others not to stay around people at that particular time. After some time of energy gathering, I'm as good as new until the next time the battery is depleted.

Edit: Yeah, what BlackCat said

 

[Max]

Introversion: Paranoia, distrust, fear of being abandoned/rejected/left out/etc. Those were my reasons, at least.

Extroversion: I find that with a location change and a change in the maturity of those around me, I would actually quite like dealing with people a lot.

 

[Oaky]

@ Blackcat: I see. Very interesting. So it's how fast we process information. But why is it that our brains process information slower than the extraverts? What in the brain would allow someone to process faster than the next?

@ Skyisblue: Yes it takes energy. We've found out it's because of the information processing. But what we haven't found out is why information is processed differently with different people. Try asking yourself why your energy leaves you when processing the information. Why are you slower at it then the extraverts?

 

[violaine]

The initial post in this thread covered it nicely. In short, there is supposedly a biological basis for I and E related to differences in the level of arousal in the cerebral cortex. Introvert's cortex is more aroused and arousable than an Extrovert's. (<--- I am paraphrasing from something I read a while ago but can't remember the source.)

I have always thought it is a nature and nurture kind of thing. Having an inborn tendency and then the degree to which you are I or E being shaped by environment.

 

[Cybin]

There's a correlation (yes, we all know what that does or does not imply) between introversion and higher levels of brain activity in the prefrontal cortex.

The forebrain is the part of the brain responsible for our ability to 'look inward' and think about thinking. It's also linked to our social inhibitions and decision making.

 

[BlackCat]

@ Blackcat: I see. Very interesting. So it's how fast we process information. But why is it that our brains process information slower than the extraverts? What in the brain would allow someone to process faster than the next?

Maybe this would answer your question in some way? I'm not sure what in the brain would do that, but it's in the frontal lobe.

The study examined a possible relationship between electrical activity recorded from the scalp and personality, especially extraversion–introversion, in a sample of 50 male and female volunteers. EEG activity was recorded from 19 electrodes while subjects opened and closed their eyes on instruction. The participants completed Cattell’s 16 Personality Factor questionnaire and from those results, second-order personality traits (extraversion–introversion, low anxiety–high anxiety, tough poise–tender mindedness, and subduedness–independence) were calculated. An association was only found between the extraversion–introversion and frontal EEG activity in the 8–13 Hz range. Results also showed that extraverts were at least 3 times more likely to have larger amplitude activity in this range. No significant associations were found in posterior regions of the brain.

Source- ScienceDirect - Personality and Individual Differences : Extraversion–introversion and 8–13 Hz waves in frontal cortical regions

But like I said, all that I know is that the path that introverts' information is taken through makes them process it slower. Look at it this way, look at this way... say that you have a quart of water. The introvert's "tube" is like a straw, the extroverts is maybe 1 inch in diameter. The introvert's water would go through the straw slower, so the information would be processed slower and more thoroughly. The extrovert's would flow much much faster, but they would process it faster and not get as much out of it, but that's made up for by just being able to amass a much larger amount of information from the environment, and if the same information goes through their head enough they will come to as much of an understanding as an introvert would have, but they would process all of it at once rather than doing less things at a time than an introvert.

So it basically accomplishes the same thing, just in different ways.

Also keep in mind all that I'm talking about is the process of taking in information, not on how much introverts introspect or whatever.

 

[Oaky]

@Sanveane: Ok, I see what your saying. I also read the initial post on the thread you hyperlinked. The post was mostly talking about the differences between the introverts and extraverts and surely it covers it quite beautifully. This does not fully help my point though. I'm looking for the ultimate root of it all. If it's inborn tendency and the shaping from your environment then where would the inborn tendency come from and would that mean someone can change it willingly if the environment can?

@Cybin: Yes, what you said went a bit deeper to the physical source. It helped. Thanks for that.

@BlackCat: I've understood about the processes of information taking from your previous post and your metaphor made a clear understanding of that point. I'm really interested in the information you've provided about the brain. It's in the frontal lobe and I know that if the frontal lobe is damaged socialization can increase or decrease (according to scientific research). This would mean that genes may not play a part in this as no matter how much one damaged oneself, his/her genes wouldn't change. Correct?
NOW... Can we modify our frontal lobe ourselves instead of damaging it and hoping we win the lottery? This is what I'd like to know.

 

[BlackCat]

no matter how much one damaged oneself, his/her genes wouldn't change. Correct?
NOW... Can we modify our frontal lobe ourselves instead of damaging it and hoping we win the lottery? This is what I'd like to know.

Yep correct.

It seems like in the future we will be able to make these modifications, but right now we haven't done those sorts of experiments or operations I'm guessing. Since who the hell would volunteer for that? But one of these days science will find a way...

 

[Ginkgo]

I'm an introvert because being away from people gives me time to metabolize everything that I pick up from the outside world.

I prefer reading books over watching movies because my friends always interject their viewpoints and crap during the movies. It ruins the immersion and brings me crashing back into reality.

Extroverts! Save that stuff for after the movie, please.

 

[Oom]

I am introverted for reasons I'm not sure about. I haven't been all that good at socializing with people. I usually am absent minded or at least thinking about something while I'm talking to you. I can go into spurts of extroversion which is when I'm the most charismatic. People seem to like me a lot more when I am in an outgoing mood.

Sometimes sitting alone is all I need. If I've been at school all day and my professors are lecturing too much I'll just go home and relax. I love to talk to people one on one as it's great when you can feel connected to someone. Like you're special.

On the other hand, I can only bare to be the center of attention for about five minutes. It feels good to have everyone interested in you, but the vulnerable feeling it produces is the only side effect.

I like to sit and think. It's what I do. I like to do solitary activities because I can do them my own way, there's no need to compete and show dominance. I can just be who I am.

 

[SerengetiBetty]

I agree with the biological explanation. Biological in terms of physical brain chemistry and not genetics. There isn't an extroverted/introverted gene.

Extraverts are able to deal with a lot more simultaneous stimuli than introverts. I don't think it has anything to do with process speed so much as how many things need to be going on in order to reach that speed. This reminds a bit of some of the research about ADHD that says it's possibly caused by a slower brain development and slow firing neurons so people have to look more to outside stimuli to help these speed up. This probably explains why all ADHD drugs are actually uppers.

I think similar could be true for extroverts as well.I know I sometimes have to do much more to get the same results as an introvert. For instance,my introvert friend can just just focus on a book by sitting and being quiet. In order for me to focus I need peripheral music, peripheral visual stimulation (usually the tv on, sound turned down) and some peripheral stimulation like food or drink.

As for why I like to be around people.Simple because it energizes me. Not that I'm a vampire or anything,but going out and talking to people - lots of people- feels more natural to me than spending extended time alone or with just 1 other person.

PS. I try very hard to not talk during a movie but it's so hard!

 

[compulsiverambler]

I agree with the biological explanation. Biological in terms of physical brain chemistry and not genetics. There isn't an extroverted/introverted gene.

You can't separate the brain from genetics. Genes are what determine which proteins our cells are made of, including brain cells. Environmental factors will influence how neurons fare once produced, and how they develop and which connections they make with each other, but genes determine what they, and brain-influencing glands are made of in the first place, and a tiny difference in a gene can have highly significant effects on the functioning of the cells it creates, and how many are created.

Extraverts are able to deal with a lot more simultaneous stimuli than introverts. I don't think it has anything to do with process speed so much as how many things need to be going on in order to reach that speed. This reminds a bit of some of the research about ADHD that says it's possibly caused by a slower brain development and slow firing neurons so people have to look more to outside stimuli to help these speed up. This probably explains why all ADHD drugs are actually uppers.

I think similar could be true for extroverts as well.I know I sometimes have to do much more to get the same results as an introvert. For instance,my introvert friend can just just focus on a book by sitting and being quiet. In order for me to focus I need peripheral music, peripheral visual stimulation (usually the tv on, sound turned down) and some peripheral stimulation like food or drink.

Yeah, something like that. Although for ADDers with hyperactivity (while most have both, some have one or the other, for unknown reasons), it's movement and certain kinds of sound (e.g. white noise) that have the most positive effect on the ability to focus and feel alert, not just any stimuli. These both increase levels of dopamine particular areas of the brain, and make it harder to focus if you have enough dopamine already, but easier if you don't have enough. Many other kinds of input will make it harder to concentrate; hearing people speak or seeing things move in the surroundings distracts people with ADHD very badly and causes frustration and increased fidgeting. I agree there's probably a similar principle at work, with extraverts craving different stimulation for different reasons and to different degrees.

 

[Athenian200]

I think I'm Introverted because genuinely Extraverted behavior involves responding to your better instincts quickly without thinking in order to avoid a negative outcome, and just faciliate the situation in general. My instincts tend to be wrong or strange, thus I can't afford to behave in a genuinely Extraverted fashion. I mean, I can have conversations about specific topics with people I know, answer questions, say hello and goodbye, etc... without problems.

I don't even have a problem carrying on a conversation initiated by someone else, or talking in front of a group of people. It's the dynamics of actually being a PART of a group of people that baffle me. Basically, it's the unconscious stuff people unconsciously expect you to respond to that can't be taught that I have trouble with.

What's draining is that I have to consciously think of correct responses in situations where most people can rely on their instincts, because mine work incorrectly. I think it might even be linked to my gender issues.

I suppose it's also because I tend to regard myself as an outsider unless it's explicitly made clear that I'm not, and that without reassurance over time I will quickly assume I've been excluded again.

 

[NewEra]

I think BlackCat outlined it pretty well by providing the links to studies which have been done regarding the roots of intro/extro-version. It seems to be more genetic than environmental.

There was a thread I made a couple of months ago about the reasons introverts feel drained from socializiation - http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...do-introverts-feel-drained-socialization.html - it might be useful.

Anyway, as for me, the reasons I like being alone mostly depends a lot on what mood I'm in. Usually I'm in such a mood where I like to get work done or just relax by being alone. I don't see much need in socializing, and I'm happy doing work/chilling out alone, so I do that. There are and were periods in my life where I needed and preferred that extra stimulation, but for now, I don't need much socialization. I guess it also depends on my energy during a particular day, but usually I'm in an introverted mood. I run a mile a day, it's not so much the physical draining of energy as it is mental.

I know that when I have extended conversations with people, mentally I'm taxed because things don't move at my own pace (as they do when I'm alone). I can soak up more mental information when I'm alone too. I know my dad (ENTJ) is the opposite - he can go on talking to people forever, doesn't seem to get tired from it, he seems to have the gift of the gab.

I can go into spurts of extroversion which is when I'm the most charismatic. People seem to like me a lot more when I am in an outgoing mood.

Same with me.

 

[Infidel]

I like being alone and need to be alone because I process too much when I'm with other people. It is very draining, even exhausting. Alone I recuperate, I think, I breathe, I relax. I did this even as a child, wandering off into the woods to explore alone, going out to some distant corner to be by myself. If I'm forced to be around people too much, I panic, get depressed, get angry and moody. Not sure why it is this way, I feel some people are naturally inclined towards introversion by way of their genetics; if you observe children, even they have some tendencies towards introversion or extroversion and they have no reasons to be shy or very outgoing. We're all built differently I guess.

 

[nolla]

I'm introvert because I hate people! :steam:



I'm sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation... Haven't slept.

I like to be around the best people, they don't drain me at all, or very slowly, so I'm not sure how introvert I am. The people who suck me dry are the ones I have to keep an eye out for. It's like I have to keep track of what I do and say because I don't trust them like I trust the best people. If I think of Cat's tube theory, I think I know the best so well that I have to process less data, most of the things to know are already in my head. Also, if my behavior is more spontaneous, it also frees up some processing power.

Too bad that the best are so hard to find. I'd like to add a few to my humble collection.

 

[Snuggletron]

no idea why I am an introvert today -biologically. Growing up I was always more inward. I lived in a shitty neighborhood from age 5-9 with my mom and remember really not having very many friends around. I did a lot of 'me' activities. Highlights of those years include me listening to the radio, drawing, and playing video games by myself. I also had some horrific summer camp experiences and I think it singed a distrust of others into me. That has more to do with my shyness now but it also made me rely more on being introverted because I found out I couldn't count on others to bring me enjoyment.

 

[TickTock]

A few reasons... I need my socialising to have meaning and most everyday chit chat doesn't and while it may be enjoyable for a time it can quickly become empty to me. I like people watching and listening to other people communicating but I listen to what is underneath the words and not just what is being said - this has made me even less interested in engaging the majority of people. I like people immensely but that is different to socialising with them and the people who I find interesting enough are in the minority.