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  1. #41
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    No, i can't easily tell Js and Ps apart (well, I can't even tell apart Is and Es sometimes). But, after I've known someone for sometime, I might start getting some more specific vibes, i.e. I might get something that resembles to what I consider as Fi or as Ni (so I s'pose I can spot NJs and FPs, but that's as far as I can go with the P/J distinction of people I don't really know).

  2. #42
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Look guys, P vs. J is not what you think it is if you're going purely by MBTI.

    What you should be asking is: I am an external J or an external P?

    We all have aspects of both; one is typically kept inside and the other governs the outer world.

    Introverts are more difficult to discern because they're dominant in the introverted process, but it's the direction of the extroverted process (which for introverts is secondary) that tells us whether you're P or J.

    Js think that it's ok to have a disorganized or inconsistent internal viewpoint as long as your external world is organized into strict schedules and measurable goals. (Does it work to achieve my goals?)

    Ps think that it's ok to have a disorganized external life with no particular plan/routine/schedule as long as your internal world is organized into logically/ethically consistent positions. (Is it internally consistent on paper?)

    That's really about all there is to it.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #43
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Okay, that's your opinion. If you want to believe that the two are compatible despite the overwhelming evidence and theory that says otherwise, that's fine. But I'm not convinced in the slightest.
    Alright, if it's my opinion, it's no less of an opinion that what you said earlier becaause really all anyone is throwing around in this thread are anecdotes and their experiences. And please, show me the evidence and theory. If you're talking about people's pet theories on this forum, then I don't take those seriously.

    I know that people are capable of learning new habits and breaking old ones. It's hard but it's doable. If you insist they're "weak" NJs because they organize their physical environment then I don't know what I'm supposed to say to that. I suppose "strong" NJs can barely put their pants on and not be trusted to operate vehicles? Why is the idea of being a typologically balanced person so abhorrent here or lessens the precious intuitive status? I consistently find the more spacey, wacky, socially ostracized, uncoordinated, non-conformist, awkward, maladjusted, and number of cats a person owns solidifies their N status to new heights and levels.

    Maybe they've had things happen to them that have taught them to change some of their previous habits. Maybe it's a control issue. People do things for any number of reasons that doesn't correlate to an MBTI function.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    That's really about all there is to it.
    I don't know how this simplification can be applied to real life people, given all the limitations of not being able to know thoroughly somebody else. Also pretty much all people will display any of the extroverted functions at different settings and situations.

    Yes, there are people with obviously organised external world and people with obviously organised internal world, but for most people the comparison is relative: they might have their internal worldview slightly more organised than the external world and this is not easily identifiable by other people. Particularly since in most social settings, i.e. workplace, one usually has to be at least moderately organised and Te and Fe capable, no matter if this is their natural preference or not.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Why is the idea of being a typologically balanced person so abhorrent here or lessens the precious intuitive status?

    I like the idea of being typologically balanced.
    The benefits should be obvious.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    It's funny, the whole "you must take your shoes off so as not to get my carpet dirty" strikes me as a waste of time. I just ripped out the carpet and put down laminate. Issue permanently solved. This is J, no?

  7. #47
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    In Canada everyone always takes their shoes off when they enter someone's home. It seems weird that people put on shoes to walk around their house. It must add for so much more cleaning.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  8. #48
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    It's funny, the whole "you must take your shoes off so as not to get my carpet dirty" strikes me as a waste of time. I just ripped out the carpet and put down laminate. Issue permanently solved. This is J, no?
    Sure why not! You made a practical decision for what works for you. My friend's in an apartment and ripping out the carpet is not an option. My last apartment deducted from my security deposit because they had to clean the carpet, which is why I don't like people in my place with shoes on either. Maybe some people like the plush and cushiony feeling of carpet on their feet and want to keep it clean. Some people don't like "the outside" wear they walk around in their bare feet (). It's their personal quirks and preferences. I'm a germaphobe and I don't like the idea of my personal space being contaminated.

    And as userhername pointed out, some habits may be cultural and have nothing to do with being a J or a P, but externally look J.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

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