User Tag List

First 2345 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 48

  1. #31
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII
    Posts
    3,067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    A lot of SJs at my job offices and cubes look like target practice at a Xerox factory.
    I'm not that messy. My mess is more of a "controlled" mess where if you did a quick glance over the room it will look slightly neat, but if you look closer you'll see dirty clothes in the desk chair and papers stuffed under the bed.

    Anyway, I don't see being disorganized as something to aspire to. If I had the choice, I'd be neat; not excessively so, but enough. Just because I like aesthetically pleasing surroundings and too much overt mess negatively affects my mental state. But when I try to be, it doesn't work out.

  2. #32
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    I often portray my lack of understanding by asking silly questions, like, why do people hate it when I fart in an elevator. P people asking why J do the little things they do - now, that's about as clueless and almost as cute.
    Why DO you fart in crowded elevators?
    (Or did you mean empty elevators?)
    ((Or elevator shoes?))
    (((Or shoe elevators?)))
    ((((And what is a shoe elevator anyway -- is that an elevator that just takes shoes from floor to floor, or is it a device that makes shoes taller, you know, like elevator shoes?))))

    Hmmm. Why do you fart wearing elevator shoes?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #33
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I'm not that messy. My mess is more of a "controlled" mess where if you did a quick glance over the room it will look slightly neat, but if you look closer you'll see dirty clothes in the desk chair and papers stuffed under the bed.

    Anyway, I don't see being disorganized as something to aspire to. If I had the choice, I'd be neat; not excessively so, but enough. Just because I like aesthetically pleasing surroundings. But when I try to be, it doesn't work out.
    I don't think it's anything wrong with saying you're an organized and tidy person. Like for example, one of my friends asks me to take of my shoes in her apartment. I don't think that's anal or OCD. It's her place, she doesn't want her carpet to get dirty and I respect that. If someone wants the space around them to be reasonably clean then I'm not going to all salty about it. I often find these threads go in the direction of NJs saying how un-J they are because real "Jness" (whatever that means) is what SJs do.

    How my J manifests itself is more conscientious and closure-orientation than anything else. If I use a sink and splash water everywhere I take a paper towel and clean it up. If I'm in the grocery story and someone is buying one thing and I've got a grocery cart full of items, I let them go in front of me. I put things back the way I found them. I don't lose people's stuff they loan me and I return it in a timely manner. I keep my personal business documents organized and in a file cabinet. I'm not particularly good at keeping up with things like car maintenance, but I'm very people organized. I also make decisions fairly quickly and know what I like and want without a lot of cogitation.

    The most stereotypically J people I know are two INTJs and INFJ. The INFJ makes lists on her cell phone, makes me take off my shoes when I enter her apartment, has all her shoes organized in clear plastic boxes, and asks me to pick up a crumb from a potato chip if it drops in her office. The INTJ, well, he's just horrible. I've been chastised for not keep my windshield clean. The other INTJ gets quite testy when we don't RSVP to events she organizes or return texts within a "timely manner." And these people aren't particularly light INJs either.

    To the OP, yes there are some people that give off a stronger J and P vibe than others. My ENFP division director is very P-ish in her mannerisms: breezy and moves quickly from one thing to another, very "we'll work out that later" with nothing really finalized. My INFP director is more organized, but I feel like it's more of a learned trait (she's in her 60s) than a natural tendency. Her general feeling is still more P-ish in that I can tell in her personal life she's more go with the flow than professionally.

    The vibe of my two ESFJ and ISTJ coworkers is not necessarily that they're obviously physically organized, but they are more closure-focused in their speech and actions. They take definite moves to move something along towards a goal, i.e. "Let's have a meeting to discuss this" or "I'll email this person to see if they're interested." Not that other types don't say this, but it's a more consistent moving a process towards something and giving/seeking direction. Compare to my NFP directors who will mention something in the hallway and that's the "meeting" or make remarks more casually with information dissemination being less official or linear.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #34
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII
    Posts
    3,067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    The most stereotypically J people I know are two INTJs and INFJ. The INFJ makes lists on her cell phone, makes me take off my shoes when I enter her apartment, has all her shoes organized in clear plastic boxes, and asks me to pick up a crumb from a potato chip if it drops in her office. The INTJ, well, he's just horrible. I've been chastised for not keep my windshield clean. The other INTJ gets quite testy when we don't RSVP to events she organizes or return texts within a "timely manner." And these people aren't particularly light INJs either.
    They would have to be less intuitive (i.e. their attention to the intangible is not much greater than their attention to the tangible). One can't be focusing on the abstract to an extremely large extent, while at the same time worrying about crumbs and RSVPs. The two are not compatible. That's why N and J are contradictory in many ways.

  5. #35
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    They would have to be less intuitive because one can't be focusing on the abstract to an extremely large extent, while at the same time worrying about crumbs and RSVPs. The two are not compatible. That's why N and J are contradictory in many ways.
    Or they are "more" intuitive and realize how bad they are at focusing on the present is and take extra measures to control for that. One of the alarms on the INFJs cell phone is to remind herself to buy toilet paper.

    ETA: I think does a disservice to MBTI to equate intuition with degraded ability to deal with reality or life in the present tense. I work in an organization with many high-performing Ns (and Ss) and this is because they have found a balance.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  6. #36
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII
    Posts
    3,067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Or they are "more" intuitive and realize how bad they are at focusing on the present is and take extra measures to control for that. One of the alarms on the INFJs cell phone is to remind herself to buy toilet paper.
    I've tried to be hyper-organizational for that reason, but like I said, it does not work out. If she is successful at being excessively organized, I'd be more inclined to think she is not very intuitive. I can play the "wedding planner" for a few days, but not much longer than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    ETA: I think does a disservice to MBTI to equate intuition with degraded ability to deal with reality or life in the present tense. I work in an organization with many high-performing Ns (and Ss) and this is because they have found a balance.
    I'm not saying one can't deal with reality, but the excessive attention to detail which you listed is not compatible with intuition. It is, however, part and parcel with sensing.

  7. #37
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I've tried to be hyper-organizational for that reason, but like I said, it does not work out. If she is successful at being excessively organized, I'd be more inclined to think she is not very intuitive. I can play the "wedding planner" for a few days, but not much longer than that.
    But that's you and your lack of success in these matters. Just because another INFJ is successful at juggling this doesn't mean they're less "N." People are able to learn skills and abilities. I'd still be counting on my fingers if that wasn't the case.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #38
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    P and J is typically not too hard to pick up in extroverts because dominant Pe/Je is typically pretty obvious.

    It's a little harder in introverts because you have to sit down and talk to them to discover the relevant functions, but...it's really pretty easy when you know which questions to ask.

    You just find out if the person values internal or external organization more highly. That's about it.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #39
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII
    Posts
    3,067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    But that's you and your lack of success in these matters. Just because another INFJ is successful at juggling this doesn't mean they're less "N." People are able to learn skills and abilities. I'd still be counting on my fingers if that wasn't the case.
    Okay, that's your opinion. If you want to believe that the two are compatible despite the overwhelming evidence and theory that says otherwise, that's fine. But I'm not convinced in the slightest.

  10. #40
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Hmmm...my belongings and physical space are very organized. I like order. But when I speak, I go off on tangents and frequently give off "we'll figure this out later" vibes. But I don't know. I'm definitely a P.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

Similar Threads

  1. Do you have an inner monologue? What is it like?
    By Geoff in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 05-10-2012, 12:36 AM
  2. Do you have an lj and are you in CO?
    By Aven in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-28-2008, 12:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO