User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 17 of 17

  1. #11
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,557

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Hmm. Interesting. It creates social detachment. How? And does Fi do that, too? Or if it does create detachment... what kind? And do you mean only in the Dominant position, or Auxiliary as well?
    I say that because Ti stands in oppositon to Fe. Using that same thinking, Fi probably creates a detachment from responsibility and doing what is neccessary (Fi opposed to Te, like these retards who run around saying the military is evil and should be abolished without realising that it's neccessary for civilisation to survive).

    Wow. I feel sorry for you guys. That sounds like it hurts!
    Now combine that with Ne. Now imagine what that person is like in day-to-day interaction. It's like trying to catch flies with just your bare hands.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Nighthawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    423

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I know this is linked in with the development of F style attributes but it occurred to me that young INTPs seem obsessed with objectivity, I know I was, and that perhaps by letting go of this misconception they will grow and find things more to their liking (young INTPs having a seeming preference for disliking the world as it is).
    I know I was more obsessed with objectivity in younger years. I saw the world as black and white ... and most of the other people were just plain wrong in my mind. Over the years I've come to realize that the neatly structured data inside my mind is not the final solution for everything. It is something of my construction and not necessarily applicable to the general population. I learned to see in shades of gray, even some color ... so to speak. For instance, I've come to view feeling as a parallel, but equally viable, construct that works hand-in-hand with thinking.

  3. #13
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Would this extend to dom-Fi as well, where an IFP would recognise that the values they hold are not absolute or that they don't neccessarilly govern other people's actions?
    Fi would probably be less based upon others values and more on internal values so I guess if you were to think in terms of values being an F kind of objective, which is true from a certain point of view, then Fi would be less "objective" and more personal/ subjective.
    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    I do agree that Ti is not objective, it just creates a social detachment that might feel objective (Te is the most objective function, if indeed it's appropiate to label any of the functions "objective"). The whole point of Ti is that the user is creating a first-hand understanding of the world based on interaction, like creating a never-ending jigsaw from scratch.
    Oddly I think that the social detachment is what causes the lack of objectivity after all it's removing the object.

    Oh and nice picture with the jigsaw puzzle. I can definitely see that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    There are different levels of "objectivity". Thinking tends to be more objective than Feeling. However; an extraverted attitude is by definition, more objective than an introverted one. Hence, Ti, while being objective because it deals with logic, does still have a very subjective orientation.
    I had also determined perception was more objective than judgment, and from there was able to put together an alternative type lettering system that reduced the four dichotomies down to one, with a scale of the types from must objective to least. INTP Central - View Single Post - Functions in the Brain
    Not sure I agree that J is less objective. It's placing rules, boundaries and limitations on things which is less objective but without such you cannot establish any object upon which to base anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I can agree with this. I know that as an INTJ, I am always concerned about consistency when I am DOING something, and have noticed that INTPs have a similar obsession when THINKING something.
    Knowledge is worthwhile for it's own sake = TP (I think)
    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Wow. I feel sorry for you guys. That sounds like it hurts!
    Like you wouldn't believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Now combine that with Ne. Now imagine what that person is like in day-to-day interaction. It's like trying to catch flies with just your bare hands.
    Hands? :eek: I've been using chopsticks for years!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
    I know I was more obsessed with objectivity in younger years. I saw the world as black and white ... and most of the other people were just plain wrong in my mind. Over the years I've come to realize that the neatly structured data inside my mind is not the final solution for everything. It is something of my construction and not necessarily applicable to the general population. I learned to see in shades of gray, even some color ... so to speak. For instance, I've come to view feeling as a parallel, but equally viable, construct that works hand-in-hand with thinking.
    Hey Nighthawk!! Long time no see.

    Feeling in parallel is a major pain though, IMO. Too many possibilities.

    I'm still working from the point of view of "if you would kindly put those warm and fuzzies under control I think I can help". Not sure it's working but it's a start.

    Of course what would be most helpful is if we could put into strict objective terms the benefits and methods of gaining the insight which changes your perceptions to include these extra variables which previously were discarded as irrelevant.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #14
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,422

    Default

    I love being Ti-Ne. But you are absolutely right in that Ti is subjective rather than objective. That is because Subjectivity has a place in the puzzle as much as objectivity.

    Right and wrong. Just and unjust. Good and evil. All subjective issues. All important in philosophy and lifestyle.

    INTJMom, jigsaw puzzles are awesome. Nothing painful about it. Our worst nightmare is finishing our Ti jigsaw puzzle. No, we want to keep busy with it, forever and ever.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #15
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I love being Ti-Ne. But you are absolutely right in that Ti is subjective rather than objective. That is because Subjectivity has a place in the puzzle as much as objectivity.

    Right and wrong. Just and unjust. Good and evil. All subjective issues. All important in philosophy and lifestyle.
    It becomes a problem however when it is believed to be objective because it is detached from the external information where as it is actually becoming more subjective. I'm thinking that remembering this might prompt some to check their thinking with external validation instead of continuing with an unproven concept upon which to build their model.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    INTJMom, jigsaw puzzles are awesome. Nothing painful about it. Our worst nightmare is finishing our Ti jigsaw puzzle. No, we want to keep busy with it, forever and ever.
    On my part it's not that I'm worried about finishing the puzzle, it's the paranoia that I'm sure that nothing is perfect which means this jigsaw isn't perfect either and I'd really like it to be.
    (note, this is exactly how I keep stuffing my computer up!!)
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #16
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Not sure I agree that J is less objective. It's placing rules, boundaries and limitations on things which is less objective but without such you cannot establish any object upon which to base anything.
    I didn't mean the J/P dichotomy; but rather the judgment and perception functions overall. "J" indicates extraverted judgment, and remember, extraversion is objective, so yes, you are right about that.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  7. #17
    Senior Member Nighthawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    423

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Hey Nighthawk!! Long time no see.

    Feeling in parallel is a major pain though, IMO. Too many possibilities.

    I'm still working from the point of view of "if you would kindly put those warm and fuzzies under control I think I can help". Not sure it's working but it's a start.

    Of course what would be most helpful is if we could put into strict objective terms the benefits and methods of gaining the insight which changes your perceptions to include these extra variables which previously were discarded as irrelevant.
    Long time, indeed

    Yes, feeling in parallel is a pain for me too. I'm still not very good at it, and I push it away sometimes. However, admitting that feeling is a valid system has helped me understand and come to terms with the world much better. After all, roughly half of the world's population has the feeling preference. Yes, it still clashes with my thinking preference from time to time, but then I'm able to take a step back and try to envision both sides of the coin ... so to speak. It has helped tremedously in my relationship with my ISFJ SO. Raw blasts of Fe still make me retreat however.

Similar Threads

  1. READ IMMEDIATELY. (You have been warned)
    By Zergling in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 171
    Last Post: 03-15-2012, 05:01 PM
  2. What is the craziest bit of technology you have read about in SF?
    By macjoven in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-14-2009, 08:15 PM
  3. Early Childhood Reading and Functional Development
    By Zayin-x in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12-19-2007, 09:13 AM
  4. Reviews of Type Books: Read First Post
    By rivercrow in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-15-2007, 09:46 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO