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  1. #41
    Senior Member Yloh's Avatar
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    Some other people already hit on the topic of how the word submissive is not the best word to use, so I'll go on from there.

    In my opinion, feelers by nature will try to please others. One of the most common ways to please others is to not be forceful. I feel IxFPs are the least forceful of all people. They will not (for the most part) force anything on anybody, but allow the other person to make the decision. By having the other person make the decision, the decision maker is happy. Because the decision maker is happy, the other person (IxFP) is happy as well. There is a flip side to the coin. If the decision maker tries to force his/her way on the feeler, the feeler will not be as happy going with his/her decision. In the end, the feeler will try to avoid the forceful person, so the conflict of that person being forceful doesn't happen.

    It isn't so much IxFxs like to submit, but they are happy allowing others to take the lead. The only problem I've experienced is everybody needs to state what they would like to do every now and then. If you don't state your wants and needs at a healthy rate, then you can bottle up some negative emotions. What I mean by this is feelers (in general) will sacrifice their wants and/or needs for the wants and/or needs of others, so there can be peace in the group. If the group or person doesn't take the time to consider the feeler's opinions because they don't state them, the feeler can end up bottling up negative emotions about those people because they don't take the same amount of time to consider the feeler's feelings as the feeler would theirs.

    In the end, I've notice two kind of reactions. The xxFJ (in general) will end up exploding in a huge rage shocking everybody and even scaring them. It is there that something finally gets done, but the damage has been caused and could of been avoided if the xxFJ had let his/her opinions known earlier. The xxFP (in general) will end up never releasing their anger at all, but allow it to dwell inside of them. This causes the anger to turn into bitterness, which is by far more damaging than any other kind of emotion. When a person is bitter, they will always show some kind of negative emotion towards the person they are bitter against. The person who is on the receiving end of this will have no idea why this person has turned into such an negative person. The only cure for this is for both parties to see the problem and come up with a solution together. Talking about one's issues (regardless of the personality type) is always one of the best methods of solving the problem.

    Overall, some people are more forceful by nature, while others prefer to back down by nature. xxTJ forceful, xxFP back down, xxFJ gentle forcefulness, xxTP just plain quiet but stands strong.

    Man I can get very wordy. I hope this makes since. Ok ... I'm done now.

  2. #42
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yloh View Post
    Some other people already hit on the topic of how the word submissive is not the best word to use, so I'll go on from there.

    In my opinion, feelers by nature will try to please others. One of the most common ways to please others is to not be forceful. I feel IxFPs are the least forceful of all people. They will not (for the most part) force anything on anybody, but allow the other person to make the decision. By having the other person make the decision, the decision maker is happy. Because the decision maker is happy, the other person (IxFP) is happy as well. There is a flip side to the coin. If the decision maker tries to force his/her way on the feeler, the feeler will not be as happy going with his/her decision. In the end, the feeler will try to avoid the forceful person, so the conflict of that person being forceful doesn't happen.

    It isn't so much IxFxs like to submit, but they are happy allowing others to take the lead. The only problem I've experienced is everybody needs to state what they would like to do every now and then. If you don't state your wants and needs at a healthy rate, then you can bottle up some negative emotions. What I mean by this is feelers (in general) will sacrifice their wants and/or needs for the wants and/or needs of others, so there can be peace in the group. If the group or person doesn't take the time to consider the feeler's opinions because they don't state them, the feeler can end up bottling up negative emotions about those people because they don't take the same amount of time to consider the feeler's feelings as the feeler would theirs.

    In the end, I've notice two kind of reactions. The xxFJ (in general) will end up exploding in a huge rage shocking everybody and even scaring them. It is there that something finally gets done, but the damage has been caused and could of been avoided if the xxFJ had let his/her opinions known earlier. The xxFP (in general) will end up never releasing their anger at all, but allow it to dwell inside of them. This causes the anger to turn into bitterness, which is by far more damaging than any other kind of emotion. When a person is bitter, they will always show some kind of negative emotion towards the person they are bitter against. The person who is on the receiving end of this will have no idea why this person has turned into such an negative person. The only cure for this is for both parties to see the problem and come up with a solution together. Talking about one's issues (regardless of the personality type) is always one of the best methods of solving the problem.

    Overall, some people are more forceful by nature, while others prefer to back down by nature. xxTJ forceful, xxFP back down, xxFJ gentle forcefulness, xxTP just plain quiet but stands strong.

    Man I can get very wordy. I hope this makes since. Ok ... I'm done now.
    This reminds me of something I read about Audrey Hepburn (a reputed INFP) and her first husband Mel Ferrer. A lot of people hated him because they saw him as a domineering, controlling husband. But apparently William Holden is quoted as saying, "I think Audrey allows Mel to think he influences her."

    INFPs can seem like total door mats because we see harmony as being more important than conflict over minor issues. Personally, I am aware of my tendancy to (internally) nitpick and get irritated about stupid things, which means I don't tend to blame that person for it. Nor do I regularly hold on to anger and resentment. Even if I do, I don't tend to feel it when communicating face to face with the person - it tends to exist solely in solitary reflection (and it can really be annoying when I inadvertently and unconsciously forgive someone I want to/know I should be angry with ). Mostly, I just feel like people are what they are, and I think that I shouldn't let myself get het up over things they aren't really capable of changing. If I lose my cool I blame myself for lack of self-control because "I should know better". And if someone behaves badly enough I tend to just give up on the person, detach myself and avoid them in future.

    But I doubt others could get INFPs to do something we really don't want to do. I am known for being incredibly stubborn when I want to be. I am accepting of a lot of things but having a rigid, demanding, authoritive nature inflicted on me is something I deeply resent. It takes away the solace of self-control and forces my hand. I become either severely withdrawn or extremely angry and agressive.

  3. #43
    Senior Member mwv6r's Avatar
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    I can't speak for all IxFx's but I definitely prefer to be the "girl" in the relationship. Only to a certain point of course -- I like my partner to take charge in all the day-to-day type stuff that doesn't matter much to me, but if I feel strongly about an issue in the relationship I will usually get my way. I just don't pull that card very often. Better to let him think he's in charge most of the time lol ;o)

    My mom is an ISFJ and she's definitely in charge of her relationship and seems quite happy. So I dunno that the IxFx thing holds...

  4. #44
    Senior Member Grace's Avatar
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    Sexually, yes.

    I agree with what a lot of the people on here seem to be saying. To people viewing my relationship with my boyfriend they probably see him as being in charge. I am ok with this, for the most part, because I know that makes him feel good. When it comes down to it though, I am usually the one making the big decisions behind closed doors. Being too controlling is actually something I know that I need to work on. While I might defer to him in many day to day things, in order to create harmony, I tend to get my way about 98% of the time on things that matter to me. I do not mean to imply that my boyfriend is a doormat or anything of the sort. He is actually pretty stubborn and won't let me give him too much shit. I appreciate this and I think that is one of the things I love best about him. There is nothing I love more than a confident guy. He does, however, listen to me and value my opinion/judgement. He wants me to be happy and he knows that if I bring up an issue with him, that means that it must be important to me and therefore he will usually comply with what I want.

  5. #45
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    I don't really chose to be the dominant, but it usually ends up happening anyway, and I have no idea how because I'm such a softy. I'm afraid that I'm going to marry a pillow or a cup of water.

  6. #46
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynamiteninja View Post
    Just a trend I've noticed among the ones I know. Is my guess right?
    Submissive how?
    If you mean it in the way I think, then nope, no, negative, and no chance in hell.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Kyrielle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynamiteninja View Post
    Just a trend I've noticed among the ones I know. Is my guess right?
    I'd rather there be equality, but more often than not, I will yield to my partner simply because I have no opinion on the matter that is strong enough for me to bother insisting on my perspective.

    And when I do have an opinion, I'm not inclined to enforce it very strongly, especially if I know that my partner has a similar attitude.

    It's all part of major conflict avoidance, even if there isn't likely to be a conflict

    But yes, this tendency to yield a little too easily can be problematic as I do not challenge my partner often enough. I'm learning, though.
    "I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference."

    Robert Frost

  8. #48
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace View Post
    Sexually, yes.

    I agree with what a lot of the people on here seem to be saying. To people viewing my relationship with my boyfriend they probably see him as being in charge. I am ok with this, for the most part, because I know that makes him feel good. When it comes down to it though, I am usually the one making the big decisions behind closed doors. Being too controlling is actually something I know that I need to work on. While I might defer to him in many day to day things, in order to create harmony, I tend to get my way about 98% of the time on things that matter to me. I do not mean to imply that my boyfriend is a doormat or anything of the sort. He is actually pretty stubborn and won't let me give him too much shit. I appreciate this and I think that is one of the things I love best about him. There is nothing I love more than a confident guy. He does, however, listen to me and value my opinion/judgement. He wants me to be happy and he knows that if I bring up an issue with him, that means that it must be important to me and therefore he will usually comply with what I want.
    Yeah, that's how I think it works with me and my (ISFJ) girlfriend. I decide most stuff because she seems to want me to, and of course I always try to take into account her preferences when making a decision. This means that whenever there's something that she really feels strongly about, I'll let her do it, because I know that it's really important.

    I actually have seen her getting pissed off when I am not decisive enough because maybe there are too many variables to consider. So I suppose that she likes me to take quick, switft decisions on relatively unimportant matters.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #49
    Junior Member camille's Avatar
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    I have a very traditional family. I've stayed at home with the kids for over ten years while my hub works everyday. I take care of all of our financials because I'm better at it. I take care of the housework and laundry because I'm pickier at than he is. Hub takes care of home repairs because he's better at it. We've found a system that works for us.

    That said, I think we compromise depending on what is needed. I've called him before when he was on his way home from work and said, "Pick me up some bright, big bird yellow paint. I want to paint my playroom." He never questions it. His thought is that I'm here all day so why not live in a house that makes me comfortable, suits what I feel. He's come home before and I've started tearing up all the carpet in the house. He just walked in the door, grabbed a glass of tea, and picked a corner to start pulling up.

    When we get new vehicles, even though I grew up around cars (my dad owns a body shop) he just goes out and buys whatever. I don't really care what I drive.

    I think many people try to exert dominance or play submissive because they fear a lack of control. When your insides don't feel in check, it's very easy to try to dominant the situation, or just give up what you feel so that there is harmony.

    I think it's more important to decide what really matters to you and go from there. It matters to me that my house is clean, so I clean it. It matters to hub that we are financially secure at a certain level, so he'll sometimes work side jobs or take extra hours (starting today, he's working thirteen days straight). I know it's important to him so I don't complain about him being gone. He knows it's important to me that he doesn't come home complaining about the long hours when he chose to work them. I don't need that kind of misery/grief/guilt. I make sure he has what he needs - supper, iced tea, clean clothes- and he makes sure he gives me a big kiss and chills out.
    It is easy to be beautiful; it is difficult to appear so...Frank O'Hara

  10. #50
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Authenticity is especially important to me in relationships. Because of this I find it difficult to pressure someone even with menial requests. I don't want someone to spend time with me if that isn't what they are naturally inclined to desire. If someone spent a day with me because they felt pressured and would rather be doing something else - that would be my nightmare. It's far worse than being ignored. I've watched other women in relationships who can tell their SO that they need a special dinner and the house cleaned up for their birthday. Their husband being a nice guy does it, and then the woman is happy and feels loved. That sort of thing is difficult for me. When I do end up with a need that isn't met it produces a problem because in the end requests to have needs met are a necessary part of relating. This lack of pushing my will onto others can seem like submission, but I conceive of it as honest and authentic.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

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