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  1. #71
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Yes, and it would take measurable, quantifiable information - stuff on paper to prove that the so-so dude is better than the great-on-paper dude.

    That's not easy. Especially if you work for a corporation or government agency that monitors such decisions. If you look like you are trying to hire the lesser person and finding info to support it you can be held legally accountable as well.

    Just some extra thoughts not obvious perhaps to people who have never hired anyone in their lives! Ni is not allowed to call all the shots here ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    It was hypothetical.
    The world is not coming to an end.
    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    This is exactly why I will never work for a bureaucracy or large business. Ni has typically led most of my hiring decisions.

    I'm pretty sure this question is attempting to capture trusting one's own intuition in decisions where one is solely responsible, though, and factors such as those are outside of its scope.
    Hmmm, these posts have lead me to notice something about the measurable boundaries of similar functional inquiries. When the individual removes the severe realistic consequences (i.e not working in a bureaucracy, flexible business guidelines, etc.) from their choices, the questions would more accurately fulfill their objective.

    For myself, when I am asked on how I would select certain life decisions, I have difficultly distinguishing between a purely hypothetical situation and their real life counter-part. Outside MBTI and this forum, I am consistently faced with circumstances that favor other functions over Ni. Over time I developed the skills necessary to assist me in this endeavor, and I am able to quickly capture the right maneuvers to make the best of my environment.

    Having molded and melded into various 'types', I lacked a sense of my inner self until my late adolescence years. I'd be surprise today if I ever encounter a situation where I could directly use my natural preferences and succeed. Most of the introverted intuition that I implemented was always behind the scenes and kept to myself. After all, when you're in a sensor environment, people tend to care most about what they can tangibly perceive. And reality isn't always forgiving when teaching these lessons. (The extroverted feeling "trainings" were the worst. )

    This is an explanation showing one aspect of how this question would initially miss the people with experiences like myself, PeaceBaby and any others I did not mention. (In the end, I can't suppress this survival instinct enough and I will withdraw myself from such tests in the future.)

    Anyway, carry on. Or skip ahead.

    /Personal experience.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  2. #72
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    It was hypothetical.
    The world is not coming to an end.
    I overemphasized the point to make a point.

    That's the problem with hypothetical questions - the parameters don't always provide a framework in reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    In my answer to the question, though, I suppose I made the assumption that I was hiring someone who I'd be directly responsible for and that the hiring process was otherwise unrestricted.
    That's why one must become creative in order to hire the people you get good hunches about. Personal interviews first, then invitation to testing, so you can screen out the people you get bad info / vibes from ("doesn't seem like a team player to me based on these responses.") When you get "good" at reading others / interviewing you know what questions you can ask to catch people with their own real answers that are contrary to the objectives of the position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Outside MBTI and this forum, I am consistently faced with circumstances that favor other functions over Ni. Over time I developed the skills necessary to assist me in this endeavor, and I am able to quickly capture the right maneuvers to make the best of my environment.
    It's like a dance always, your feelings and intuition tell you things that you must seemingly justify to others in order to execute them. It's a great skill to develop and possess though. Potentially tapping the best of both worlds. Still frustrating sometimes though to have to do this in the first place.

  3. #73
    Charting a course
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post

    In my answer to the question, though, I suppose I made the assumption that I was hiring someone who I'd be directly responsible for and that the hiring process was otherwise unrestricted.
    ACK! :horor:

    Never "assume" in a business environment. Find out. Have someone find out for you. Then check on their checking.

    Remember, always. Cover Your Ass, no one else will.


  4. #74
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post

    Just some extra thoughts not obvious perhaps to people who have never hired anyone in their lives! Ni is not allowed to call all the shots here ...
    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    This is exactly why I will never work for a bureaucracy or large business. Ni has typically led most of my hiring decisions.

    In my answer to the question, though, I suppose I made the assumption that I was hiring someone who I'd be directly responsible for and that the hiring process was otherwise unrestricted.

    I'm pretty sure this question is attempting to capture trusting one's own intuition in decisions where one is solely responsible, though, and factors such as those are outside of its scope.
    Greed, you made the right assumption. That's exactly what was intended.

    I hired people to work for me for years.
    I hate to burst someone's bubble in this thread, but yes, Ni is indeed allowed to call the shots.
    When you hire people to work for you, you can do whatever the hell you want.
    Period.

    I don't know how old you are Greed,
    but I can certainly understand your not wanting to work for a bureaucracy or large business.
    I tell people to blaze their own trail; run their own show.
    I can think of nothing more stifling to the human soul, than working in a cubicle every day for someone else.

    That's death.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I overemphasized the point to make a point.

    That's the problem with hypothetical questions - the parameters don't always provide a framework in reality.
    Indeed. For all we know, the situation in the OP could have been that we're on a magical base on the moon, where if word gets out that a person does not trust their intuition, they get ejected into space.

    That's why one must become creative in order to hire the people you get good hunches about. Personal interviews first, then invitation to testing, so you can screen out the people you get bad info / vibes from ("doesn't seem like a team player to me based on these responses.") When you get "good" at reading others / interviewing you know what questions you can ask to catch people with their own real answers that are contrary to the objectives of the position.
    Now there's the glorious Ne "circumventing the rules" mentality. I'm going to have to remember this method if I get myself into such a situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Biaxident View Post
    ACK! :horor:

    Never "assume" in a business environment. Find out. Have someone find out for you. Then check on their checking.

    Remember, always. Cover Your Ass, no one else will.

    Oh, yeah.. I guess, relating to the first quote, if the situation in the OP was one I faced in real life, I'd be cognizant of the hiring rules before I did any such hiring. And then, relating to the second quote, I'd do my best to get around them and do what I want anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Greed, you made the right assumption. That's exactly what was intended.

    I hired people to work for me for years.
    I hate to burst someone's bubble in this thread, but yes, Ni is indeed allowed to call the shots.
    When you hire people to work for you, you can do whatever the hell you want.
    Period.
    You're absolutely right. On the other hand, many perceive "you can do whatever the hell you want" to imply "without consequence," which is simply not the case. However one decides to call the shots in whatever environment he's in--be it through hunches or through rigorous research--he must also take responsibility for his actions.

    I don't know how old you are Greed,
    but I can certainly understand your not wanting to work for a bureaucracy or large business.
    I tell people to blaze their own trail; run their own show.
    I can think of nothing more stifling to the human soul, than working in a cubicle every day for someone else.

    That's death.
    25. Started working in my field at a pretty young age. Four years in various bureaucratic environments and working for large businesses was enough to make me want to stab myself. It helped me figure out my priorities, though. And it led me to a situation wherein I had the flexibility I needed in order to actually be productive. It took a lot of drudgery to get there, though, but I knew just about where I was headed, and that kept me going.

    Even with our level of flexibility, many other researchers take whatever work they can get and end up back at environments where they lose that flexibility. One of my fellow researchers told me of a company he worked with that wanted employees to document their activities in 15-minute increments. I, however, actively refuse to take on customers who are large businesses and expect to treat me as if I were an employee of theirs. That is about the worst death, yes.

    But some people absolutely thrive under such structured environments. My hat goes off to them, since that's a capability that I lack.

  6. #76
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    You're absolutely right. On the other hand, many perceive "you can do whatever the hell you want" to imply "without consequence," which is simply not the case.
    That's not what I was suggesting.
    If I didn't hire the right people, I'm the one who would suffer.
    I got a percentage of the profit made on every person I hired.
    If I didn't make the right choice, I wouldn't make money.
    It's that simple.

    Even with our level of flexibility, many other researchers take whatever work they can get and end up back at environments where they lose that flexibility. One of my fellow researchers told me of a company he worked with that wanted employees to document their activities in 15-minute increments.
    15-minute increments? :horor: What are they Nazis?
    I would never do that to anyone, nor would I ever put up with such bullshit

    I tend to favor an independent work atmosphere.
    Restricting people merely restricts performance.
    That's my philosophy.

  7. #77
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    This is an explanation showing one aspect of how this question would initially miss the people with experiences like myself, PeaceBaby and any others I did not mention. (In the end, I can't suppress this survival instinct enough and I will withdraw myself from such tests in the future.)

    Anyway, carry on. Or skip ahead.

    /Personal experience.
    I think it sounds like you have an awfully defeatist, negative, and limited attitude towards life. You blithely throw away everything that doesn't seem immediately relevant to real life or your goals, and exalt personal experience to ridiculous heights. You seem to create too many boundaries and stifle contemplation for the sake of pure practicality and pragmatism.

    TJs really are missing out on so much in life. Ah, well. Too bad. Hopefully you figure out how to balance your Te/Fi axis eventually... it seems like the pendulum is swinging the opposite way now.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    That's not what I was suggesting.
    If I didn't hire the right people, I'm the one who would suffer.
    I got a percentage of the profit made on every person I hired.
    If I didn't make the right choice, I wouldn't make money.
    It's that simple.
    Don't get me wrong--I know that's not what you're suggesting. You don't exactly strike me as the kind of guy who's irresponsible or impractical.

    But the standard picture of someone who "does whatever they want" also tends to be someone without a strong hold on reality or responsibility. I just want our audience to know that it is usually, in fact, exactly the opposite that is true--such freedom is intertwined with responsibility, and "the real world" typically comes only when one takes the reigns.

    15-minute increments? :horor: What are they Nazis?
    I would never do that to anyone, nor would I ever put up with such bullshit

    I tend to favor an independent work atmosphere.
    Restricting people merely restricts performance.
    That's my philosophy.
    I completely agree. It's stifling and insulting, and it hints at a complete lack of trust in one's employees.. even the ones who have proven themselves with a record of superior performance.

  9. #79
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post

    But the standard picture of someone who "does whatever they want" also tends to be someone without a strong hold on reality or responsibility. I just want our audience to know that it is usually, in fact, exactly the opposite that is true--such freedom is intertwined with responsibility, and "the real world" typically comes only when one takes the reigns.
    You still don't get it.
    Never mind.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Don't get me wrong--I know that's not what you're suggesting. You don't exactly strike me as the kind of guy who's irresponsible or impractical.

    But the standard picture of someone who "does whatever they want" also tends to be someone without a strong hold on reality or responsibility. I just want our audience to know that it is usually, in fact, exactly the opposite that is true--such freedom is intertwined with responsibility, and "the real world" typically comes only when one takes the reigns.


    I completely agree. It's stifling and insulting, and it hints at a complete lack of trust in one's employees.. even the ones who have proven themselves with a record of superior performance.
    Your audience just wants you to know

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