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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    While the latter two are scientific, in that they seek to describe trends based on observation, they aren't science, due to the lack of theoretical prediction (trends aren't predictive, they're merely descriptive of past events) and reproducibility (you can't say an ENFP will react this way, every time stimulus X is applied).
    Thats because people learn, we adapt, we grow. That and you must understand the stimlulus which means we have to understand the state of the person. Not everything is as it appears. I may steal a dollar today because I am hungry, but tomorrow I may have found a homeless shelter to feed me and dont need the dollar. What does this mean? The dollar is not really the stimulus it is a means to the stimulus. how do you know the tests to reproduce the reaction arent flawed?

  2. #22
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Thats because people learn, we adapt, we grow. That and you must understand the stimlulus which means we have to understand the state of the person. Not everything is as it appears. I may steal a dollar today because I am hungry, but tomorrow I may have found a homeless shelter to feed me and dont need the dollar. What does this mean? The dollar is not really the stimulus it is a means to the stimulus. how do you know the tests to reproduce the reaction arent flawed?
    Which is why psychology is not currently empirical science, which demands a consistently reproducible result given a set of variables. Since we haven't even quantified a large fraction of these variables yet, it's impossible to make predictive theories. We can only describe trends and hypothesize accordingly.

  3. #23
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    MBTI has been shown to have a good degree of construct validity, internal consistency, and test-retest reliability (though other studies might disagree). And considering that there aren't many personality assessment systems out there, I think it should get credit where credit is due.

    Construct Validity of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator -- Thompson and Borrello 46 (3): 745 -- Educational and Psychological Measurement
    Myers-Briggs Type Indicator Score Reliability Across: Studies a Meta-Analytic Reliability Generalization Study -- Capraro and Capraro 62 (4): 590 -- Educational and Psychological Measurement

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbw View Post
    Is the MBTI science, or is it bullshit?
    This question is germane for MBTI is used extensively by the military and business but no psychology department in any university will touch it.

    And since WW II MBTI has been enormously popular with the public.

    Perhaps to understand this we need to understand the history of MBTI.

    For the father of MBTI is Carl Jung. And he freely and enthusiastically supported the wrong side in WW II. He personally applied sexual therapy to his patients, but note, only to his female patients. And if he did this today he would be immediately struck off and would not be able to practise as a psychiatrist anywhere in the civilized world.

    And on top of this two opportunists, Mrs Briggs and her daughter Mrs Myers, with no psychometric education or training whatsoever, invented a bogus personality test called MBTI.

    And Mrs Briggs and her daughter Mrs Myers invented this test for the purpose of inducting women into the war effort. And as you know the military still use MBTI today to induct recruits for war. And business, seeing how useful it is to the military, adopted it to recruit staff for business.

    However I would emphasise that every psychology department knows MBTI is bogus.

    However MBTI is very appealing. It is appealing as astrology, and for the same reason. Both MBTI and astrology tell you what you want to hear. Both astrology and MBTI work on confirmation bias. Both are self validating. And how much we want to be validated.

    But no matter how appealing and validating MBTI and astrology are, no astronomer believes in astrology and no psychometrician believes in MBTI.

    But we all long to be validated so we believe.

  5. #25
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbw View Post
    Sure they do; for instance, "red" is electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength of 650nm.
    cognitive functions work identically.
    they are an objective set of criteria [such wavelength] under which behavior is categorized.

    the MBTI is, in itself, bullshit though.
    we fukin won boys

  6. #26
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    MBTI is bullshit.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    MBTI is bullshit.
    May I disagree with you?

    MBTI is a powerful movement used by the military and business since WW ii. And it is immensely popular with the public.

    And with the rise of the mass universities since WW II, MBTI has become an kind of upmarket astrology.

    But most of all MBTI is validating. It validates our wishes and desires. It is like a magic genie that no only acknowledges our wishes and desires but says they are true. MBTI is irresistible to the narcissistic. And we live in a narcissistic age, so no wonder MBTI is so popular.

    Ah, if wishing only made it true.

    However there is an alternative to MBTI, and that is we can stop arguing amongst ourselves and start to validate one another.

    And this can be done safely over the internet.

    So if anyone wants to learn how to safely validate one another over the internet, let me know.

    Victor.

  8. #28
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    "Science or BS?" doesn't even enter into the question for me. Science can only test a limited subset of all possible ideas (of which the MBTI is not one), and any given scientific theory is as subject to correction as a non-scientific theory. The key here is to remember that a theory in practice isn't a thing itself to be believed in or not; in use, a theory is only a system that sorts things into categories to allow you to make practical decisions. The judge of a theory isn't whether it's BS, therefore, so much as whether that theory proves useful and makes accurate predictions. For me, the MBTI is a fun and useful lens to view people through, and I use it freely, albeit with several corrections to suit my goals and experiences.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  9. #29
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    May I disagree with you?
    No.

  10. #30
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    May I disagree with you?

    MBTI is a powerful movement used by the military and business since WW ii. And it is immensely popular with the public.

    And with the rise of the mass universities since WW II, MBTI has become an kind of upmarket astrology.

    But most of all MBTI is validating. It validates our wishes and desires. It is like a magic genie that no only acknowledges our wishes and desires but says they are true. MBTI is irresistible to the narcissistic. And we live in a narcissistic age, so no wonder MBTI is so popular.

    Ah, if wishing only made it true.

    However there is an alternative to MBTI, and that is we can stop arguing amongst ourselves and start to validate one another.

    And this can be done safely over the internet.

    So if anyone wants to learn how to safely validate one another over the internet, let me know.

    Victor.
    What percent of the public (in the Western world) do you think knows about MBTI?

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