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  1. #1
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Default What annoys me about some Ps...

    ...is the way they act as though Ps have a monopoly on open-mindedness simply because their perceiving function is extraverted.

    As absurd as you find we Js' penchant for trying to impose order upon the chaos that is reality, we find your penchant for trying to impose order upon the chaos that is the mind.
    Last edited by Mycroft; 10-11-2007 at 06:50 PM. Reason: Minor rewording
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  2. #2
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    It was a large eye-opener to me when things finally "clicked" in my head and I realized that the closure J's search for on the surface doesn't mean internally that you are closure-oriented at all... and in fact you are more "open" than P's in general that way.

    When I was younger, people seemed more WYSIWYG... but it's not that way at all in terms of the J/P divide. Closure on the surface usually mean far more openness beneath than I had ever realized.

    It also helped explain why I felt so whimsical and casual outwardly, but inwardly I often felt very critical and rigid... always having to weigh and judge things.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #3
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Yeah. I sometimes think the motivation for outward closure is a convenience of sorts. If things are decided, you don't have to be preoccupied with them. Your mind is more free to think about other things.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #4
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    If things are decided, you don't have to be preoccupied with them. Your mind is more free to think about other things.
    Exactly, cafe. That was well said.
    Last edited by Natrushka; 10-11-2007 at 08:38 AM. Reason: Lack of Si

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  5. #5
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natrushka View Post
    Exactly, Ivy cafe. That was well said.
    Sometimes that closure is definitely a bit premature!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #6
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    People change avatars and it really messes me up. <sigh> I've had two coffees today, too.

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  7. #7
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natrushka View Post
    Exactly, cafe. That was well said.
    Do not be deceived.
    Mornings are terrible I know.
    If they use the cheap dark African brand in your diner it may look like real coffee.

    It isn't.

  8. #8
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    ...is the way they act as though they have a monopoly on open-mindedness simply because their perceiving function is extraverted.

    As absurd as you find we Js' penchant for trying to impose order upon the chaos that is reality, we find your penchant for trying to impose order upon the chaos that is the mind.
    I know exactly what you mean.

    I once told a P on another forum that she should treat other people decently on the forum and not publicly point out their mistakes because I felt that we should be kind to each other so we could have a better, friendlier, and more inviting community. I remember the PM I got from her saying that I wasn't "enlightened" enough to understand the freedom of the internet and I had no right to try to "impose" my values on her or anyone else. That of course got me angry because she had no right telling me how I should think when I was just trying to keep everyone's feelings from getting hurt.

    All of that was from me just saying, "Hey, let's all be nice to one another." Since then I've noticed a repeating pattern of that same attitude with a lot of other Ps. As long as they don't come around telling me how to think, I don't tell them how they should treat other people, and we have gotten along just fine.

  9. #9
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Sorry, kiddo -- I am a Mod and I support the values you were sharing, but I found it ironic (and unexpected) that I bristled inside when you described what you had done.

    My thought was, "Who are you to tell me that I wasn't being nice, or judging my actions as something disruptive, when that was just your opinion?"

    And I think that is usually where the problem lies. I think both J and P types want to respect freedom, and we also both want to value kindness to others: The conflict is contextual. What situations did you consider to be "unkind"?

    I have even seen it here more than a few times, where a J has taken it upon themselves to tell everyone to "be nice"... and it annoys me because it did not seem to be a situation that warranted it, and the "be nice" card is stifling in how it's being played. Who says that people were not being nice? Who says there actually was a true conflict/negative discussion going on? Usually it is just a matter of perspective.

    It's annoying sometimes to feel like one's intentions were labeled as "not nice" when one had no ill intentions to begin with. It is like a mini-slap-in-the-face to hear that coming out of the blue.

    [And yes, I'm aware that as a Mod I end up having to make decisions like that myself. But then again, that is a responsibility I've been given and am expected to fulfill, whereas the commentary I am describing comes from people who are not responsible for monitoring the behavior of other people, just their own.]

    Note: I am bringing this up more to describe a POV and highlight the difference in approach here.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #10
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's annoying sometimes to feel like one's intentions were labeled as "not nice" when one had no ill intentions to begin with. It is like a mini-slap-in-the-face to hear that coming out of the blue.
    I had not heard it from the other perspective before so I can see where the strife might be. It's just when I see someone doing something like taking it upon themselves to repeatedly poke fun at newbs for little mistakes I also feel a little bristled inside and some part of me clicks on and I instantly want there to be an understanding that that behavior could be considered "not nice".

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