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  1. #11
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Really, the key to extravertedness is to throw yourself into an extraverted situation and force yourself to stop second-guessing yourself; it all happens a lot more naturally than one might assume, and it's silly to think that there's some sort of "method" to the madness.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Really, the key to extravertedness is to throw yourself into an extraverted situation and force yourself to stop second-guessing yourself; it all happens a lot more naturally than one might assume, and it's silly to think that there's some sort of "method" to the madness.
    That's true. I was going to talk about how I stopped second guessing myself but I can't remember how I did it. Living in Japan was one thing I can think of.

    There is another point brought up in the quote though. That is, a person being measured extrinsically. People being measured extrinsically creates a rift in some peoples minds. And playing to that feels not real in some way. I think the advice given in the quote that you are acting from a base of yourself is pretty solid advice.


    Bob Dylan - It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)
    Last edited by wolfy; 08-31-2009 at 02:02 AM. Reason: Prettied it up, just for you.

  3. #13
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Really, the key to extravertedness is to throw yourself into an extraverted situation and force yourself to stop second-guessing yourself; it all happens a lot more naturally than one might assume, and it's silly to think that there's some sort of "method" to the madness.
    I disagree. For the most part, I avoid small talk because it’s just taxing to me. I’ve avoided it for as long as I can remember. Somewhere in there I forgot how to even participate. And on top of that, I’ve built up a kind of disdain for it because when people meet me they want to engage me in it and I’ve developed an irrational aversion.

    Now- being an very introverted person- I’ve learned that I need to set some time beforehand to ‘practice’ conversation in my head before I go any event in which I expect to deal with a lot of people. If I don’t do this, I’ve found it’s exponentially harder for me to participate in conversation. I invariably end up spending the entire evening (or afternoon, whatever) just listening or spitting out ‘word salad’ at people. I need to warm the engine up or it just keeps stalling for the entirety of the event.

    The point: when I ‘practice’ in my head, I’m in the habit of ‘practicing’ conversation that I personally find interesting. This is where the “method to the madness” comes in. It had really never occurred to me to ‘practice’ the kind of small talk that I personally find inane, if only because I’d developed such an aversion. I hadn’t ‘practiced’ that kind of small talk in my head pry since junior high school- which was over 20 years ago. It wasn’t until I read that bit in the OP (or, at least something very similar, I don’t remember where/when I saw it first) that I figured out how to work on ‘breadth’.

    I mean, I think there’s something brilliant about putting it into terms fit for a 13 year old kid, because I think that’s where ‘breadth’ and I started parting ways:

    To cultivate shallowness, go after social status. Learn what triggers people to thoughtlessly obey or pay attention, and exploit it. Learn what is popular and imitate it so you can be popular, too. Experiment with superficiality: Don't Just be Yourself.
    And there are probably quite a few introverts with a similar experience.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  4. #14
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    I don't like the term shallowness but I could see how cultivating certain public behaviors that are more likely to make others comfortable, like you or not be threatened by you could be beneficial. Even though underneath it all you may have much deeper opinions or ideas about the true nature of the social exchange, most people don't really give a shit about that.

  5. #15
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I disagree. For the most part, I avoid small talk because it’s just taxing to me. I’ve avoided it for as long as I can remember. Somewhere in there I forgot how to even participate. And on top of that, I’ve built up a kind of disdain for it because when people meet me they want to engage me in it and I’ve developed an irrational aversion.

    Now- being an very introverted person- I’ve learned that I need to set some time beforehand to ‘practice’ conversation in my head before I go any event in which I expect to deal with a lot of people. If I don’t do this, I’ve found it’s exponentially harder for me to participate in conversation. I invariably end up spending the entire evening (or afternoon, whatever) just listening or spitting out ‘word salad’ at people. I need to warm the engine up or it just keeps stalling for the entirety of the event.

    The point: when I ‘practice’ in my head, I’m in the habit of ‘practicing’ conversation that I personally find interesting. This is where the “method to the madness” comes in. It had really never occurred to me to ‘practice’ the kind of small talk that I personally find inane, if only because I’d developed such an aversion. I hadn’t ‘practiced’ that kind of small talk in my head pry since junior high school- which was over 20 years ago. It wasn’t until I read that bit in the OP (or, at least something very similar, I don’t remember where/when I saw it first) that I figured out how to work on ‘breadth’.

    I mean, I think there’s something brilliant about putting it into terms fit for a 13 year old kid, because I think that’s where ‘breadth’ and I started parting ways:



    And there are probably quite a few introverts with a similar experience.
    I should have supplemented my explanation with "as long as you're talking to people about things you have an interest in." I have a hatred for small talk as well, as I imagine many introverts do. Whenever I'm caught up in that sort of conversation I tend to instinctually scan for a subject area I'm willing to talk about at length, and then just try my best to steer things in that direction.

  6. #16
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    I should have supplemented my explanation with "as long as you're talking to people about things you have an interest in." I have a hatred for small talk as well, as I imagine many introverts do. Whenever I'm caught up in that sort of conversation I tend to instinctually scan for a subject area I'm willing to talk about at length, and then just try my best to steer things in that direction.

    Life would def be a lot easier for introverts if the world were filled with people who had similar interests.

    But it isn't.

    The point of the piece in the OP is that introverts often feel excluded from opportunities in life they'd like to act on but feel too disempowered to even try because of an inability to function in certain environments. I think the piece effectively dissects that 'inability', and exposes it as an 'ability that atrophied due to unwillingness'- thereby making it, at the very least, doable.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  7. #17

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    Here is an interesting quote from Psychological Types C. G. Jung
    Almost more even than the extraverted is the introverted type subject to misunderstanding: not so much because the extravert is a more merciless or critical adversary, than he himself can easily be, but because the style of the epoch in which he himself participates is against him. Not in relation to the extraverted type, but as against our general accidental world-philosophy, he finds himself in the minority, not of course numerically, but from the evidence of his own feeling. In so far as he is a convinced participator in the general style, he undermines his own foundations, since the present style, with its almost exclusive acknowledgment of the visible and the tangible, is opposed to his principle. Because of its invisibility, he is obliged to depreciate the subjective factor, and to force himself to join in the extraverted overvaluation of the object. He himself sets the subjective factor at too low a value, and his feelings of inferiority are his chastisement for this sin. Little wonder, therefore, that it is precisely our epoch, and particularly those movements which are somewhat ahead of the time, that reveal the subjective factor in every kind of exaggerated, crude and grotesque form of expression. I refer to the art of the present day.

    The undervaluation of his own principle makes the introvert egotistical, and forces upon him the psychology of the oppressed. The more egotistical he becomes, the stronger his impression grows that these others, who are apparently able, without qualms, to conform with the present style, are the oppressors against whom he must guard and [p. 498] protect himself. He does not usually perceive that he commits his capital mistake in not depending upon the subjective factor with that same loyalty and devotion with which the extravert follows the object By the undervaluation of his own principle, his penchant towards egoism becomes unavoidable, which, of course, richly deserves the prejudice of the extravert. Were he only to remain true to his own principle, the judment of 'egoist' would be radically false; for the justification of his attitude would be established by its general efficacy, and all misunderstandings dissipated.
    And just 'cause I can
    Crowded House - Weather With You

  8. #18
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    He does not usually perceive that he commits his capital mistake in not depending upon the subjective factor with that same loyalty and devotion with which the extravert follows the object
    Hmm. I think I'm going to stick this in my pipe and try smoking it for a bit.

    Jung is awesome.

    Also: Crowded House is awesome. Great vid.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Hmm. I think I'm going to stick this in my pipe and try smoking it for a bit.

    Jung is awesome.
    Yeah, that quote you pulled out is great.

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