Real world examples of Ti

[Poki]

I've been working closely with a Ti heavy INTP coworker. When I've found a problem and present it to him in Ne form, he processes it, sometimes within minutes, sometimes for a day, then he retells it in Ti-form as if he discovered it himself. I mostly find this really confusing.

Doesn't sound Ti to me. We process the solution, not the problem. Sounds like he is just restating it in his own way. And also sounds like he is trying to understand it and the discovery from him you experience from him is his internal ah-ha moment of understanding the problem. Until you understand the problem you can't find the solution.

It's funny when people do this because sometimes you have to keep correcting them as they can change the problem to fit a solution. Instead of finding a solution to the problem.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I've been working closely with a Ti heavy INTP coworker. When I've found a problem and present it to him in Ne form, he processes it, sometimes within minutes, sometimes for a day, then he retells it in Ti-form as if he discovered it himself. I mostly find this really confusing.

Perhaps (in his way) he thinks he discovered it via you relaying said problem to him.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I like this video. It's an internal logical framework that allows us to understand the world. Feelings included. The goal is to have a single complete understanding, which may or may not be possible dependent on missing data and missing logic. It's one of those things where understanding just builds and builds and reorganizes to form a logical picture.

For example, when I was little I would listen to my parents argue. Unlike F, I didn't bring feelings into play and I didn't just take each and every statement as a standalone statement. I would take each pro/con/idea/etc. And analyze it all together. I wouldn't take sides, I wouldn't bring feelings in of I am mad at you so I am gonna go against you. It was pure analytical construction of things in my head. Combined with Se it's a pure analytical process of everything my senses pull in. The goal is to build this framework not to accomplish a goal at this point. At another stage I use this framework to accomplish goals and live live. Sometimes I switch between analysis and use very fast and other times I can sit in analysis for hours on end. After about 8-10 hours of straight heavy analysis and trying to build this framework my head will start to hurt.

Edit: i don't like the axiom of freedom. Freedom is not a right, that's not logic. Everything can be broke down logically, we are actually trying to reach the deepest understanding. Freedom for example is a choice, the ultimate last reach for freedom is suicide. Even in a controlling country we choose whether we want to abide or not. Even in America we are not free. We still have laws and punishment and penalties. We are just "more" free then other countries. People are retarded who support "freedom" and then stipulate...this is america...you must do it this way. It's a logical fail. Axiom in the way explained is more TJ tradition then Ti

I agree with you, for the most part.

I like your comments on freedom. I think it highlights one of the major follies of American interventionism: there is something a bit "off" about the idea of imposing concepts as vague as "freedom" and "liberty" on other nations or groups of people. I'm not trying to take this thread into political debate territory, just pointing out a fallacy which to me is evident in several US ideologies, whether "left" or "right".

 

[Poki]

My INTP father tends to play card and board games extremely logically. It makes him good at them, but also quite easy to read.

My aunt did this and it made her very easy to read. She is by far Ti though her logic is very shortsighted.

 

[Poki]

I agree with you, for the most part.

I like your comments on freedom. I think it highlights one of the major follies of American interventionism: there is something a bit "off" about the idea of imposing concepts as vague as "freedom" and "liberty" on other nations or groups of people. I'm not trying to take this thread into political debate territory, just pointing out a fallacy which to me is evident in several US ideologies, whether "left" or "right".

Yes...aside from right, wrong, subjective, objective. It's a logical fail that unless you change the wording of freedom or change the US it is a logical fail. Something has to be twisted or ignored for it to be true.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Yes...aside from right, wrong, subjective, objective. It's a logical fail that unless you change the wording of freedom or change the US it is a logical fail. Something has to be twisted or ignored for it to be true.

I think it's a weak piece of rhetoric american politicians of every party use to get the general public to support wars where the goal isn't really to "liberate" people but rather to bolster american interests overseas. They're not counting on most voters to pick the words and ideas apart enough to really find the fallacies contained therein.

Again, I didn't mean to bring politics into this. I'm trying to remain as vague as possible, but I think this is relevant to the nature of Ti and what you're saying about logic.

 

[Poki]

I think it's a weak piece of rhetoric american politicians of every party use to get the general public to support wars where the goal isn't really to "liberate" people but rather to bolster american interests overseas. They're not counting on most voters to pick the words and ideas apart enough to really find the fallacies contained therein.

Again, I didn't mean to bring politics into this. I'm trying to remain as vague as possible, but I think this is relevant to the nature of Ti and what you're saying about logic.

Yes, Ti like to dig deeper into issue. Agreed it's a sales tactic that passes initial sniff test when compare against other countries or other concepts that is used to make a comparison due to steering the comparisons. Ti likes to get to bottom of things instead of "groupie" thinking. Funnily enough it's all steered toward Fi and they are blind to it. Makes me wonder what things are steered towards Ti that we are blind to.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Makes me wonder what things are steered towards Ti that we are blind to.

I'm not sure, but that gives me something to contemplate this afternoon.

 

[Mal12345]

More MMA fighters than I would have imagined are actually INTP types.

 

[Qlip]

Perhaps (in his way) he thinks he discovered it via you relaying said problem to him.

This is pretty much how I look at it.

Doesn't sound Ti to me. We process the solution, not the problem. Sounds like he is just restating it in his own way. And also sounds like he is trying to understand it and the discovery from him you experience from him is his internal ah-ha moment of understanding the problem. Until you understand the problem you can't find the solution.

It's funny when people do this because sometimes you have to keep correcting them as they can change the problem to fit a solution. Instead of finding a solution to the problem.

Well, in most cases it's related to finding a solution. The typical (abstract, arbitrarily automotive) setup is this:


Me: Well, I looked at it and the delivery truck is broken. It could be a ton of things [iterates possibilities], but we're not going to be able to fix it without a cherrypicker and we can't get one until Monday. We're going to have to let this one go for now.

Him, after a disconnected amount of time, and his own investigation: Qlip, I looked at the truck and ran some diagnostics and it looks like the timing belt is broken, I just don't see if there's anything we can do about it right now, we're stuck.


And now that I think about it, it seems like it could be Te orientation vs Ti orientation. Which in a team can be good, but I find somewhat irritating because I find the process being over thorough for the work we are in. Also, like I said, I find the presentation rather odd.

 

[Poki]

This is pretty much how I look at it.



Well, in most cases it's related to finding a solution. The typical (abstract, arbitrarily automotive) setup is this:


Me: Well, I looked at it and the delivery truck is broken. It could be a ton of things [iterates possibilities], but we're not going to be able to fix it without a cherrypicker and we can't get one until Monday. We're going to have to let this one go for now.

Him, after a disconnected amount of time, and his own investigation: Qlip, I looked at the truck and ran some diagnostics and it looks like the timing belt is broken, I just don't see if there's anything we can do about it right now, we're stuck.


And now that I see it, it seems like Te orientation vs Ti orientation. Which in a team can be good, but I find somewhat irritating because I find the process being over thorough for the work we are in. Also, like I said, I find the presentation rather odd.

Timing belt doesn't require a cherry picker. While the conclusion was the same, yours was incomplete. With your solution you woud have had to wait until another day to research and then had to go back and order a timing belt. I do see where he is coming from...a cherry picker is not needed to do analysis and while your possibilities froze you in your tracks he saw that it's possible we may not need one. In this situation this is the case, but what if you had a timing belt and changed it right then and could change it right then and there. Or was an easy fix. You would have pushed off what could have been fixed because of unknowns. As a Ti if I didn't have time and there were other pressing issues, I woud have agreed due to the time it takes to analyze. If I had nothing else to do its more efficient to use the time then to wait until later. Completely depends on whole situation as to the outcome.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

More MMA fighters than I would have imagined are actually INTP types.

Interesting. Do you think Ti comes into play in their training? If so, how would you speculate that it is used by them in their sport?

 

[Poki]

More MMA fighters than I would have imagined are actually INTP types.

Lol

 

[Qlip]

Timing belt doesn't require a cherry picker. While the conclusion was the same, yours was incomplete. With your solution you woud have had to wait until another day to research and then had to go back and order a timing belt. I do see where he is coming from...a cherry picker is not needed to do analysis and while your possibilities froze you in your tracks he saw that it's possible we may not need one. In this situation this is the case, but what if you had a timing belt and changed it right then and could change it right then and there. Or was an easy fix. You would have pushed off what could have been fixed because of unknowns. As a Ti if I didn't have time and there were other pressing issues, I woud have agreed due to the time it takes to analyze. If I had nothing else to do its more efficient to use the time then to wait until later. Completely depends on whole situation as to the outcome.

Hah, serves me right for attempting to use an fictional automotive situation with an ISTP. This all would've been dependent on the specifics, which I do take into account. My analysis would've been complete, for the current state of the task, perhaps not for the problem.

The probably more relevant point is we work in situations where we have all of what we need on hand, and the landscape can be entirely different in a weeks time. Being thorough on that has its merits in figuring out reusable solutions that pay off, but individual situations can be irrelevant within a weeks time. He has a tendency to want to analyze everything, independent of those factors, which is why I thought he was Ti heavy.

 

[Poki]

Hah, serves me right for attempting to use an fictional automotive situation with an ISTP. This all would've been dependent on the specifics, which I do take into account. My analysis would've been complete, for the current state of the task, perhaps not for the problem.

The probably more relevant point is we work in situations where we have all of what we need on hand, and the landscape can be entirely different in a weeks time. Being thorough on that has its merits in figuring out reusable solutions that pay off, but individual situations can be irrelevant within a weeks time. He has a tendency to want to analyze everything, independent of those factors, which is why I thought he was Ti heavy.

I would again have to know the landscape to determine how things can be reused and in what way vs throw awayable analysis. Knowledge is something that builds on itself and even as you analyse things you are working on analysis I skills which apply everywhere. Data is not always relevant, nor is packagable reusable solutions. Understanding math applies across so many fields. To understand a carburetor is physics and introduces you to principles of air flow. Ignition timing introduce you to mechanical as well as chemical timings, not to mention knocks which introduce you to change of temperature with compression and how different chemicals have different flash points and also timing issues. Knowledge spans so much that as you learn the understanding of something you can become proficient in so many areas even with a changing landscape. I do think what I said above in this post is more TiNi based then purely Ti though.

FWIW my INTJ dad got me into fixing cars, my mom taught me finances, my gramma taught me quilting, I learn everything from everyone, programming was one of my sisters. I am not limited to alot of things people think ISTPs are limited to.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Lol

Maybe they were bullied more as kids and decided that no one would bully them if they learned to fight like badass animals

edit: unsure of Christopher Langan's (reportedly one of the smartest people in the world) type but I read that he got tired of being bullied so began lifting weights...he was a bouncer at one point.

 

[Poki]

Maybe they were bullied more as kids and decided that no one would bully them if they learned to fight like badass animals

Wanna be ISTPs must be why I am a programmer, picked on for being stupid so I had to become a badass INTP...lol

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Wanna be ISTPs must be why I am a programmer, picked on for being stupid so I had to become a badass INTP...lol

You seem pretty intelligent to me. You have the best of both worlds.

 

[Mal12345]

Maybe they were bullied more as kids and decided that no one would bully them if they learned to fight like badass animals

edit: unsure of Christopher Langan's (reportedly one of the smartest people in the world) type but I read that he got tired of being bullied so began lifting weights...he was a bouncer at one point.

"Langan took a string of labor-intensive jobs for some time, and by his mid-40s had been a construction worker, cowboy, Forest Service Ranger, farmhand, and, for over twenty years, a bouncer on Long Island."

That doesn't surprise me. Although each MBTI has its stereotypical occupations, what they don't tell you is that the INTP type can often be found in a variety of different kinds of occupations. That Langan was a college drop-out doesn't surprise me either, as college has little of value to offer except for a lot of boring, routine studying, with a possibly unused and unvalued diploma at the end.

INTPs may spend their lives doing lowly restaurant work, painting and roofing houses, carpentry work - anything to get them by financially while they pursue their private interests.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

"Langan took a string of labor-intensive jobs for some time, and by his mid-40s had been a construction worker, cowboy, Forest Service Ranger, farmhand, and, for over twenty years, a bouncer on Long Island."

That doesn't surprise me. Although each MBTI has its stereotypical occupations, what they don't tell you is that the INTP type can often be found in a variety of different kinds of occupations. That Langan was a college drop-out doesn't surprise me either, as college has little of value to offer except for a lot of boring, routine studying, with a possibly unused and unvalued diploma at the end.

INTPs may spend their lives doing lowly restaurant work, painting and roofing houses, carpentry work - anything to get them by financially while they pursue their private interests.

That's almost comically tragic. I have no right to compare myself to someone as brilliant as Langan, but I dropped out of college and until my current job (purchasing) I only worked "menial" jobs (warehouse, assembly, security, fast food, waiter). I'm still not sure I know what I want to be when I grow up. Oh wait, I'm already in my 30's.