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  1. #41
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    Wow! If that is the case it is absolutely ridiculous. I am self employed as well so I have managed to avoid this type of absurdity. I think it can be useful to see what type of tasks one might possibly like and thus thrive in but only as a guess. Definitely not as a deciding factor.

    Of course it's ridiculous.
    I would never use MBTI to hire anyone.

  2. #42
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    First of all, there are people who have lost jobs or not been hired because of type discrimination.
    I have read hundreds upon hundreds of stories over the years.
    And those are only the stories I know of.
    Imagine the stories I do not know of.

    I don't know where some people are getting their information from,
    but MBTI is used in the corporate world.
    It's how MBTI makes most of its money.
    How would you like to have a job hanging in the balance,
    based on a 4-letter code?

    Frankly, I think it's unfair discrimination.
    How would you like to be refused a job, for being INFJ or ENFP?

    I've been self-employed so I don't have to deal with that shit.
    But there are many people who do have to deal with it.
    I have also read, and heard, stories of "type cliques" inside companies.
    There are companies who demand their employees put a sticky label on their clothing,
    and wear it at the office.

    No, I am not kidding.

    MBTI makes its money off corporations.
    Not people in this forum.
    Well, I don't condone using it THAT way, but I do think it has applications as a starting point for personal self-analysis and possibly growth and understanding.

    I don't believe we should condemn a system just because a group of ignorant people misused it. I say condemn the employers who misused MBTI to hire people, not MBTI itself. Any tool or idea can be abused and misused in the wrong hands.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, I don't condone using it THAT way, but I do think it has applications as a starting point for self-analysis and possibly growth and understanding.

    I don't believe we should condemn a system just because a group of ignorant people misused it. I say condemn the employers who used MBTI to hire people, not MBTI itself.
    You condemn a system that is proven unreliable.
    MBTI is unreliable.
    Anyone can Google the evidence out there.
    Unless they're just plain lazy.

  4. #44
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You condemn a system that is proven unreliable.
    MBTI is unreliable.
    Anyone can Google the evidence out there.
    Unless they're just plain lazy.
    Unreliable... for ONE application.

    Are you saying it's unreliable for hiring people to positions? Of course it's unreliable for that. It shouldn't be used for that.

    But are you saying it's not valuable as a set of archetypes, or as a tool for helping you recognize avenues for personal development?

    The evidence just shows that it's unreliable for the application a bunch of people try to use it for, not that it's unreliable for other, less social applications. I would agree with condemning it's use as a hiring tool, though. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Unreliable... for ONE application.
    I did not mean for one application.
    I meant unreliable for what it claims is true.

    Athenian, we got into function orders yesterday. You were in the thread.
    You know people don't have the function orders MBTI claims.
    It's unreliable.

    But are you saying it's not valuable as a set of archetypes, or as a tool for helping you recognize avenues for personal development?
    Personal development?
    Get serious.
    How can anything that claims a part of you is automatically "bad" be developmental?

    Case in point:
    "ooooohhhhhh Johnny is operating out of his SHADOW."

    The only people who should buy into that fear-mongering paranoia,
    are those who had a recent lobotomy.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Of course it's ridiculous.
    I would never use MBTI to hire anyone.
    You or anybody else with half a brain.

    I would be interested in learning which companies are doing this and comparing their performance against the industry standard. I have many executive level relatives in my family who work for large corps. They basically scoff at MBTI as well. Even the ones who head up HR for their companies. If you feel comfortable naming any corps. that use MBTI as the deciding factor in their hiring I would love to know who for my own little study. You could PM me if you don't want to put it out there.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    You or anybody else with half a brain.

    I would be interested in learning which companies are doing this and comparing their performance against the industry standard. I have many executive level relatives in my family who work for large corps. They basically scoff at MBTI as well. Even the ones who head up HR for their companies. If you feel comfortable naming any corps. that use MBTI as the deciding factor in their hiring I would love to know who for my own little study. You could PM me if you don't want to put it out there.
    The information came to me from those who were affected.
    That means employees and potential employees.

    Despite the fact I believe the stories, technically, they are hearsay.
    Therefore, I won't toss around company names.
    I will say that when I was researching all of it 2 years ago, I encouraged many to file lawsuits.
    They had a damn good case.

    You got me thinking, so I got on Google for the hell of it.
    It took mere minutes to find this story:

    " Do you think it's alright for companies to rely on the MBTI to hire employees based on the results that prospective employees get?

    I'm asking this because I remember when I was younger I used to type ENFP on the mbti and I got a job based on those results.
    The job was a call center. My other friend who typed as an ISTP didn't get the job.
    The interviewers never told us on what basis I was hired and he was not but I'm pretty sure that I got the job because of the results I got,
    we weren't even interviewed, they just told us to do a 100 questionaire.

    At the end I had to quit because I was constantly being told by my managers that I lied on the test,
    but apparantly they still liked how I worked but I wasn't happy with it so ended up quitting."

    Now that is what I call bullshit.
    Giving someone an MBTI and NO interview.
    What the hell is wrong with people?

  8. #48
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Oh Wonk, what will the revolution be without you? Our horses stand ready champing at the bit. When the order is given, we move forward quietly at a slow walk, with only the sound of soft clinking but even the horses can feel the excitement. And soon almost without any encouragement the horses break into a soft trot, all together, of one purpose.

    After all, a cavalry charge is very much about the horses, for a horse is not truly a horse except in a herd galloping, hooves beating, across the plain.

    And as the herd gallops together across the plain, they exult in being horses, each one being as courageous as the next.

    As their blood rises, they break into an imperious canter - beating, beating the rhythm of the canter with their flying hooves.

    With the wind in their faces and their hair flying, they look magnificent. Their eyes flash and nothing can stop them.

    Until the order is given, "Charge".

    At that point everything changes, the whole herd breaks into a gallop - this is what they live for - the whole herd dancing at full gallop. Each one leaves himself and becomes one with the herd. It's beyond reason. It is beyond common sense. It is simply beautiful.

    The canons may roar, the shot may ring out, but at full gallop they transcend all and carry us across the battlefield as though we were angels. Until we take the enemy at full gallop with cold steel.

    Afterwards in the Mess, there is one place left empty, an empty plate and an empty cup - Wonk is no longer with us - his horse misses him, the herd misses him and I miss him.
    That sounds incredibly exciting and romantic.


    OK---I'll be there alongside you, but for my own reasons, as a free-agent.

    And I'll fight with all my heart, but I won't stick around when the dust has cleared.


    In the immortal words of Men At Work,

    Ain't nothing gonna break my stride
    Nobody's gonna slow me down
    Oh no, I've got to keep on moving

    Ain't nothing gonna break my stride
    I'm running and I won't touch ground
    Oh no, I've got to keep on moving
    __________________


    I'M OUTTA HERE.

    IT'S BEEN FUN.

    TAKE CARE.

    PEACE OUT!!!


  9. #49
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    MBTI is a cult based on an invalid and unreliable personality test.

    So MBTI has the advantage of meaning whatever you want it to mean.

    This has definite appeal to the narcissist.
    Not this again...

    Invalid and unreliable? For what purposes? The uses for MBTI vary as widely as the number of people who use it. For my purposes it is completely reliable. It is my tool. The "meaning" remains pretty similar, it is personality test, but the uses vary. And I like being narcissistic, so RAWR to that


    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    However there is no rational basis for MBTI and as it fits so neatly into the New Age Cult, I think there is reason to call MBTI a cult.

    What are you going to call it - a personality test?
    Rational basis? What about that it is a tool that helps people understand themselves? What is so irrational about that? If you're not going to call it a personality test, what should I call it? A tuna fish sandwich?


    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Good heavens, the cult leader is the Guru Carl Jung. And they worship themselves, after all this is a cult of the personality. And the rites and ceremonies are learning and repeating the jargon of MBTI over and over again, just like a ritual.

    The claims of MBTI has been disproven over and over again but it makes no difference on the believers nor on their recruiting practices.
    Again, it is a tool. Disproven to do what?


    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I'm glad you are alive and so am I.

    And there are better things to do. This site is no longer called MBTI Central, rather it is now called Typology Central. And in particular it is psychological typology.

    Typology of course covers many fields such as the typology of language, and typology is used in many of the natural sciences, and of course typology of the psyche in psychology.

    Typology is a legitimate discipline. And it is only its use in MBTI that brings it into disrepute.

    But perhaps our goal should be to find something that catches your interest and help you pursue it.
    Do you not want to discuss psychological typology here? Would you rather classify some rocks or plants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    If that is the case, why is it used extensively in your military and business and why are there 'schools' profitably teaching it.

    MBTI has no more truth value than astrology.

    And I would be alarmed if my military and my businesses were using astrology.

    I would not invest in any business that practised astrology and I would not feel safe if my military practised astrology.

    Same with MBTI.
    MBTI by definition is a test. You give info about your personality in it, and it spits out stuff about your personality out. Astrology is not a test in that way. The only thing you give it to tell you your personality is a birthdate, which is an entirely different method.


    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Because it's a personality test.

    Breaking up common aspects of behavior, and assigning them to different personality types, while it lacks scientific precision, can prove to be a useful way of looking at behavior.

    Personality theory, or temperament theory, began with Greek doctor Hippocrates and the four humors. MBTI is a more refined version of this, offering 16 humors.

  10. #50
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Not this again...
    Invalid and unreliable? For what purposes? The uses for MBTI vary as widely as the number of people who use it. For my purposes it is completely reliable. It is my tool. The "meaning" remains pretty similar, it is personality test, but the uses vary. And I like being narcissistic, so RAWR to that
    Well, LunaLuminosity, your military extensively uses MBTI. Your businesses extensively use MBTI. But no Psychology Department in any of your Universities will touch it.

    This does open up some interesting questions about MBTI - its history, its use, its popularity and what it actually is.

    Fortunately this is a tolerant and well run site, and we are permitted to explore these questions here.

    I am pleased to hear from you and reply to you, but I would prefer you addressed the issues rather than insulting me personally.

    Thank you,
    Victor.

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