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  1. #31
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    As I usually say when this comes up, we try to be a site where typology can be investigated and critiqued, not just swallowed wholesale. Which is why we don't delete posts that are critical of MBTI. We welcome skeptics; I am one myself.
    The next time an obnoxious person asks me why I am here,
    I think I will just use your post to shut them up.

    I thank you for your fairness and objectivity, Ivy.

  2. #32
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenomite View Post
    Do you think that MBTI has as much validity as the words of Socrates?

    EDIT: Not taking a stance, just curious.
    No, certainly not.

    But accusing it of causing "corruption" seems to stem from the same closed-minded attitude as those who condemned Socrates. The point is that people should be allowed to examine it for themselves, rather than being asked to accept that it's flawed based on someone else's analysis.

    I believe that MBTI is a set of stylized, ideal archetypes that people's personalities often tend towards. You know, sort of like geometric shapes tend towards ideal forms, but often aren't really close to them in reality? Like, there are shapes of which you can say, that looks sort of like a square, and sort of like a circle. You can't really call it either, but you'll likely end up calling it whichever it seems closest to.

    For instance, I'm nowhere near any of the archetypes, but I'm closest to INFJ. I could actually be knocked out of it, though, by having slightly stronger Te/Fi qualities (would push towards INTJ enough to knock me out), or slightly stronger Ne qualities (would push me towards ENTP enough to knock me out). So I'm INFJ, but I'm just barely closer to it than any other. A step up or sideways would "change" my type, because type is a bit of a stretch.

  3. #33
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    What Wonk, you've defected?

    Well let me appeal to your better nature. You don't believe in astrology for good reason. Well you have exactly the same reasons for not believing in MBTI.

    And like the prodigal you can return to the fold.

    I mean think what fun this site is and how much better it would be without the irrationality of MBTI.

    There are lots of other personality tests that are valid and reliable when given by a psychometrician.

    I mean Wonk you are a revolutionary in a revolutionary society, surely you will join the revolution here. Think of this as the Boston Tea Party, Fort Sumpter has been fired upon and all stout sons are called to fight for Freedom.

    You are no longer a British colony and this is no longer MBTI Central.

    LOL.

    I think you're awesome, Victor, but I won't join anybody's revolution.

    I do my own thing.

    And I think MBTI is great whether other people do or not.
    __________________


    I'M OUTTA HERE.

    IT'S BEEN FUN.

    TAKE CARE.

    PEACE OUT!!!


  4. #34
    Systematic chaos Cenomite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    The point is that people should be allowed to examine it for themselves, rather than being asked to accept that it's flawed based on someone else's analysis.
    Very true! I don't think that we should go around preaching that MBTI is some sort of evil cult to people who are uninformed, that's just reverse propaganda. But, I do think Victor has a point in that a lot of people who get absorbed into the whole "typology / self-discovery" scene tend to get too into it, and try to apply MBTI to things that it really shouldn't be applied to. I think that's more of what Victor meant by a cult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    No, certainly not.

    But accusing it of causing "corruption" seems to stem from the same closed-minded attitude as those who condemned Socrates.
    So when is it OK to accuse something or someone of causing corruption? Do you think that open-mindedness should have its limits? (Lolz off-topic)

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I believe that MBTI is a set of stylized, ideal archetypes that people's personalities often tend towards. You know, sort of like geometric shapes tend towards ideal forms, but often aren't really close to them in reality? Like, there are shapes of which you can say, that looks sort of like a square, and sort of like a circle. You can't really call it either, but you'll likely end up calling it whichever it seems closest to.
    That's pretty much my view on it
    The probability that I was procrastinating when I was typing this post:

    P(have big assignment due) = 0.6
    P(posting on TypoC) = 0.2
    P(having big assignment due | posting on TypoC) = 0.7

    P(posting on TypoC | having big assignment due) = .......


    Eh, I'll finish it later.

  5. #35
    Systematic chaos Cenomite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    I think you're awesome, Victor, but I won't join anybody's revolution.

    I do my own thing.
    I don't know exactly why, I but love you for posting this
    The probability that I was procrastinating when I was typing this post:

    P(have big assignment due) = 0.6
    P(posting on TypoC) = 0.2
    P(having big assignment due | posting on TypoC) = 0.7

    P(posting on TypoC | having big assignment due) = .......


    Eh, I'll finish it later.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    Hey this is what life is all about... finding ways to excuse your failures and shortcomings... self improvement is an illusion and any gains made are never long lasting... my experience... the best improvement just comes naturally with maturity.... It just so happens that some people never mature thats all... Ah well screw it we're not all a fine wine!
    ... couldn't drag me away

    Željko Ražnatovic: argus
    Željko Ražnatovic: do you want heir's?
    WildHorses: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    Željko Ražnatovic: to carry your genealogical code??

  7. #37
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    But accusing it of causing "corruption" seems to stem from the same closed-minded attitude as those who condemned Socrates.

    First of all, there are people who have lost jobs or not been hired because of type discrimination.
    I have read hundreds upon hundreds of stories over the years.
    And those are only the stories I know of.
    Imagine the stories I do not know of.

    I don't know where some people are getting their information from,
    but MBTI is used in the corporate world.
    It's how MBTI makes most of its money.
    How would you like to have a job hanging in the balance,
    based on a 4-letter code?

    Frankly, I think it's unfair discrimination.
    How would you like to be refused a job, for being INFJ or ENFP?

    I've been self-employed so I don't have to deal with that shit.
    But there are many people who do have to deal with it.
    I have also read, and heard, stories of "type cliques" inside companies.
    There are companies who demand their employees put a sticky label on their clothing,
    and wear it at the office.

    No, I am not kidding.

    MBTI makes its money off corporations.
    Not people in this forum.

  8. #38
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    First of all, there are people who have lost jobs or not been hired because of type discrimination.
    I have read hundreds upon hundreds of stories over the years.
    And those are only the stories I know of.
    Imagine the stories I do not know of.

    I don't know where some people are getting their information from,
    but MBTI is used in the corporate world.
    It's how MBTI makes most of its money.
    How would you like to have a job hanging in the balance,
    based on a 4-letter code?

    Frankly, I think it's unfair discrimination.
    How would you like to be refused a job, for being INFJ or ENFP?

    I've been self-employed so I don't have to deal with that shit.
    But there are many people who do have to deal with it.
    I have also read, and heard, stories of "type cliques" inside companies.
    There are companies who demand their employees put a sticky label on their clothing,
    and wear it at the office.

    No, I am not kidding.

    MBTI makes its money off corporations.
    Not people in this forum.
    Wow! If that is the case it is absolutely ridiculous. I am self employed as well so I have managed to avoid this type of absurdity. I think it can be useful to see what type of tasks one might possibly like and thus thrive in but only as a guess. Definitely not as a deciding factor.

  9. #39
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    LOL.

    I think you're awesome, Victor, but I won't join anybody's revolution.

    I do my own thing.

    And I think MBTI is great whether other people do or not.
    Oh Wonk, what will the revolution be without you? Our horses stand ready champing at the bit. When the order is given, we move forward quietly at a slow walk, with only the sound of soft clinking but even the horses can feel the excitement. And soon almost without any encouragement the horses break into a soft trot, all together, of one purpose.

    After all, a cavalry charge is very much about the horses, for a horse is not truly a horse except in a herd galloping, hooves beating, across the plain.

    And as the herd gallops together across the plain, they exult in being horses, each one being as courageous as the next.

    As their blood rises, they break into an imperious canter - beating, beating the rhythm of the canter with their flying hooves.

    With the wind in their faces and their hair flying, they look magnificent. Their eyes flash and nothing can stop them.

    Until the order is given, "Charge".

    At that point everything changes, the whole herd breaks into a gallop - this is what they live for - the whole herd dancing at full gallop. Each one leaves himself and becomes one with the herd. It's beyond reason. It is beyond common sense. It is simply beautiful.

    The canons may roar, the shot may ring out, but at full gallop they transcend all and carry us across the battlefield as though we were angels. Until we take the enemy at full gallop with cold steel.

    Afterwards in the Mess, there is one place left empty, an empty plate and an empty cup - Wonk is no longer with us - his horse misses him, the herd misses him and I miss him.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Nizy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Oh Wonk, what will the revolution be without you? Our horses stand ready champing at the bit. When the order is given, we move forward quietly at a slow walk, with only the sound of soft clinking but even the horses can feel the excitement. And soon almost without any encouragement the horses break into a soft trot, all together, of one purpose.

    After all, a cavalry charge is very much about the horses, for a horse is not truly a horse except in a herd galloping, hooves beating, across the plain.

    And as the herd gallops together across the plain, they exult in being horses, each one being as courageous as the next.

    As their blood rises, they break into an imperious canter - beating, beating the rhythm of the canter with their flying hooves.

    With the wind in their faces and their hair flying, they look magnificent. Their eyes flash and nothing can stop them.

    Until the order is given, "Charge".

    At that point everything changes, the whole herd breaks into a gallop - this is what they live for - the whole herd dancing at full gallop. Each one leaves himself and becomes one with the herd. It's beyond reason. It is beyond common sense. It is simply beautiful.

    The canons may roar, the shot may ring out, but at full gallop they transcend all and carry us across the battlefield as though we were angels. Until we take the enemy at full gallop with cold steel.

    Afterwards in the Mess, there is one place left empty, an empty plate and an empty cup - Wonk is no longer with us - his horse misses him, the herd misses him and I miss him.
    Did you just kill Wonka with poetry?

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