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  1. #1
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Default Pairing 2 extraverted or 2 introverted functions together?

    This came up from a discussion I had with substitute. Have you ever used an extroverted perceiving function with an extroverted judging function (eg Ne Te) or two introverted functions together (eg Ni Ti) together? Such function pairing isn't talked about in most theories... in fact some of them insists the pair should be one inwards the other outwards. That it's not possible otherwise. Also if you had, what did you find the easiest to pair together? Discuss... (and feel free to go as off topic as you like. It's all good!)

  2. #2
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Heh, I'll see what comes of this in the morning, for now it's beddie-byes for those of us in Europe that have early morning starts!
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  3. #3

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    I use Ti and Si together a lot (if my inanely quote and link riddled posts weren't enough of a clue).

    I think there are practical reasons for using Ti and Si together ("proving" things better, working out the details of a design, etc.), but not engaging Ne, can render the whole thing unclear and unusable (despite "working better" or "being better proven").

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #4
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I use Ti and Si together a lot (if my inanely quote and link riddled posts weren't enough of a clue).
    *nods* That makes sense. I find myself relying on Ni Ti in explaining things a lot. Again, dominant, tertiary function pairs seem to pop up. (really need more data though to support this) Question to you, Have you ever try say Ti Ni? Or does Ne tries overrides your attempt like Ni Fe for me?

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    *nods* That makes sense. I find myself relying on Ni Ti in explaining things a lot. Again, dominant, tertiary function pairs seem to pop up. (really need more data though to support this) Question to you, Have you ever try say Ti Ni? Or does Ne tries overrides your attempt like Ni Fe for me?
    Sure I use Ti and Ni to hatch plans for "world domination".

    Unlike, the Ni-Te combination that may see a vision and try to produce it in the world, I try to elicit principles about ideas that become pervasive (and try to create an original idea from those principles).

    Again, this has practical purposes, but without my Ne, these are just ideas in incubation.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  6. #6
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Currently my top two functions are Ti and Fi, brought to that level by overuse. I used them together to consider what kind of acceptable worldview is possible - such that maintains truth both in feelings and systems of information. I found that while mathematical logic is infallible, the application to the world is not, even tho we would wish to maintain infallible philosphies. I also found that emotions and values come as given, and a person may notice them if they listen well enough. These form a basement for personal philosophy, that takes into account one's psyche.

    It helped me to solve the meaning of my personal life in an uncommunicatable way. It is really, really, really, really *REALLY* rare for me to understand something I can't hope to communicate. Usually my ability to explain and the ability to understand follow each other closely. I'm an auditory learner, as well. Everything I read and experienced couldn't establish the meaning of life for me. When I understood it, I was unable to translate it to the outside world, and still am. No, it ain't God, I could communicate that.

  7. #7
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    From everything I've been able to assertain I use Ne and Te followed by Ni and Ti the most. As an INTJ the order is supposed to be Ni then Te, but I've read that you develop the introverted / extroverted functions very close together.

    This signature left intentionally blank.

    Really.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Currently my top two functions are Ti and Fi, brought to that level by overuse. I used them together to consider what kind of acceptable worldview is possible - such that maintains truth both in feelings and systems of information. I found that while mathematical logic is infallible, the application to the world is not, even tho we would wish to maintain infallible philosphies. I also found that emotions and values come as given, and a person may notice them if they listen well enough. These form a basement for personal philosophy, that takes into account one's psyche.

    It helped me to solve the meaning of my personal life in an uncommunicatable way. It is really, really, really, really *REALLY* rare for me to understand something I can't hope to communicate. Usually my ability to explain and the ability to understand follow each other closely. I'm an auditory learner, as well. Everything I read and experienced couldn't establish the meaning of life for me. When I understood it, I was unable to translate it to the outside world, and still am. No, it ain't God, I could communicate that.
    I also use Ti and Fi together. I find it difficult to evaluating the importance of something without analyzing it. In fact, although all the functions work together, the following "requirements" seem to hold for me.

    ("-->" means "seems to require")

    1. Se-->Ne-Experiencing and noticing the physical world requires(or seems to require) me to infer relationships and threads of meaning.
    2. Fi-->Ti-Evaluating the importance and understanding what is of value requires me to analyze what is being evaluated and its context.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  9. #9
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Some perhaps interesting thoughts related to this question:

    Tertiary Temptation

    Tertiary Defense
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  10. #10
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    Some perhaps interesting thoughts related to this question:

    Tertiary Temptation
    Tertiary Defense
    Yes, that's what I was going to describe here, but you can just read the wonderful links.

    (The gist is that the temptation is for an extrovert [introvert] to fall back on the extroverted [introverted] tertiary because it is "safe" or comfortable in some way, when really what they need to do is to take risks and develop their secondary. Relying on tertiary will usually just make the problem worse.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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