User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 31

  1. #1
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default ENxPs: Not embarrassed about creativity?

    I've noticed that you think similarly to me on a few levels, but because you've got Ne and I've got Ni... you approach it differently, AND have so much more facility in navigating the social world. I'd be willing to bet that you made a lot more mistakes earlier on in life, because you impulsively acted out most of your hunches... but that you probably learned a lot more, and got a better "feel" for what was realistically possible, too. I always halted mine and thought them through, acted on a few but dismissed most of them, and while I probably made fewer mistakes in the eyes of others, I know almost nothing about reality. Funny how that works, I guess.

    I do know that when I was much younger, I displayed signs of both Ni and Ne, but I definitely started to settle into Ni after being criticized by several teachers for doing something differently than how I was told, even though it made more sense. And I just know that I would feel unbelievably embarrassed displaying much intelligence or creativity in front of people in the real world now (though it's not as bad online). The way a lot of people would feel if they were seen naked or something.

    I suppose the scariest thing about Ne to me, though, is the vulnerability. I mean, it pretty much means you're trusting the world around you and the situations you encounter to influence your ideas about things in a positive or meaningful direction, regardless of how screwed up, contrived, or unreasonable the part of the world you find yourself in may be. Basically, to some extent, you're letting yourself be controlled by the present situation, hunches, and context rather than anything beyond it.

    So, I guess my question is... how exactly does showing creativity help you in life, and how do you manage to avoid feeling constantly embarrassed by it? I mean, does it just not register that it might make you look silly or inappropriate, do you just not care? Do you have something you tell yourself, or some kind of force inside that makes you keep doing it anyway?

    Just curious.

  2. #2
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    1,155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I've noticed that you think similarly to me on a few levels, but because you've got Ne and I've got Ni... you approach it differently, AND have so much more facility in navigating the social world. I'd be willing to bet that you made a lot more mistakes earlier on in life, because you impulsively acted out most of your hunches... but that you probably learned a lot more, and got a better "feel" for what was realistically possible, too. I always halted mine and thought them through, acted on a few but dismissed most of them, and while I probably made fewer mistakes in the eyes of others, I know almost nothing about reality. Funny how that works, I guess.

    I do know that when I was much younger, I displayed signs of both Ni and Ne, but I definitely started to settle into Ni after being criticized by several teachers for doing something differently than how I was told, even though it made more sense. And I just know that I would feel unbelievably embarrassed displaying much intelligence or creativity in front of people in the real world now (though it's not as bad online). The way a lot of people would feel if they were seen naked or something.

    I suppose the scariest thing about Ne to me, though, is the vulnerability. I mean, it pretty much means you're trusting the world around you and the situations you encounter to influence your ideas about things in a positive or meaningful direction, regardless of how screwed up, contrived, or unreasonable the part of the world you find yourself in may be. Basically, to some extent, you're letting yourself be controlled by the present situation, hunches, and context rather than anything beyond it.

    So, I guess my question is... how exactly does showing creativity help you in life, and how do you manage to avoid feeling constantly embarrassed by it? I mean, does it just not register that it might make you look silly or inappropriate, do you just not care? Do you have something you tell yourself, or some kind of force inside that makes you keep doing it anyway?

    Just curious.
    Well, yes, I do feel very vulnerable most of the time, because I often follow my hunches and inspirations spontaneously, and therefore, make lots of mistakes and do things I regret.

    But I don't necessarily feel controlled by the present situation.

    I am somewhat dependent on external cues to tell me how I'm doing, if thats what you mean, because I'm an Extravert.

    But I'm not locked in to external cues. I have introverted judgement too.

    To me, the present situation is a sea of possibilites and I generally can't wait to jump in.

    I usually only feel controlled when I allow the opinions of others to stifle my creativity.

    Some people would say that I would benefit from letting others stifle my creativity a little.

    I think the better solution is to balance my openness to experience with my personal values, and voluntarily limit the possibilities for my own good.

    As far as creativity goes, its not just something I do here and there, as a hobby.

    I take a creative approach to just about everything.

    It seems that no matter what I'm doing, I personalize it in some way, often to the dismay of others, who are often eager to point out how I could have done it "better".

    I realize that my approach to things often looks silly or illogical to other people, but the more I trust my own judgement, the less dependent I am on the approval of others.

    Though people may initially criticize the way I do things, as long as I stick to my guns and take responsibility for my actions, they often come around to seeing the legitimacy of my approach.

    It never fails.

    On this forum, for example, there are some who think everything I do is ridiculous, and they spend a lot of time advising me and trying to "fix" me.

    But I feel confident that if I stay true to myself, most of them will start to see where I'm coming from.

    This has already begun to happen.

    For every loudmouthed busybody that I've encountered in the last week or so, I've received a compliment or a friend request from someone else.

    This is the natural consequence of being true to one's self in spite of the obstacles.

    Anyone can do this, if they trust their own judgement more than the opinions of others.
    __________________


    I'M OUTTA HERE.

    IT'S BEEN FUN.

    TAKE CARE.

    PEACE OUT!!!


  3. #3
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Socionics
    ????
    Posts
    3,665

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I've noticed that you think similarly to me on a few levels, but because you've got Ne and I've got Ni... you approach it differently, AND have so much more facility in navigating the social world. I'd be willing to bet that you made a lot more mistakes earlier on in life, because you impulsively acted out most of your hunches... but that you probably learned a lot more, and got a better "feel" for what was realistically possible, too.
    This part sounded like something I've experienced. So, quite accurate according to my experiece as younger.

    I suppose the scariest thing about Ne to me, though, is the vulnerability. I mean, it pretty much means you're trusting the world around you and the situations you encounter to influence your ideas about things in a positive or meaningful direction, regardless of how screwed up, contrived, or unreasonable the part of the world you find yourself in may be. Basically, to some extent, you're letting yourself be controlled by the present situation, hunches, and context rather than anything beyond it.
    Interesting thought. I don't see Ne as vulnerable. As an ENFP Fi is much more vulnerable than Ne. In my experience, Ne doesn't mean trusting the world around me to influence me. It's not sensing. It's making the connections in my own head. So, there is environmental influence needed but it's not dominant. The thing doesn't happen in the environment but in my head. The Ne can happen even without the environmental affect, when I'm thinking of something when it's totally quiet around me. Ne can happen without anything happening in the environment. in that way, the environment is not controlling me nor my Ne process. Ne gets "food" from the environment but it doens't always need the external stimulus of "the world" or the people. Ne also concerns inner thougths that I play around with. These thoughts arent' necessarily the product of straight environmental affect.

    So, I guess my question is... how exactly does showing creativity help you in life, and how do you manage to avoid feeling constantly embarrassed by it? I mean, does it just not register that it might make you look silly or inappropriate, do you just not care? Do you have something you tell yourself, or some kind of force inside that makes you keep doing it anyway?
    Just curious.
    I don't understand why I should be embarrased of someting I enjoy so much. Ne is not stupidity because on it's best it's brilliancy (lol, don't know if there is such word in English). It's seeing in the moment more than the others (with no Ne) can't. Of course, Ne needs pairing up with critical thinking, as you said there, you learn to see what's reasonable.

    I really don't care if i look silly. I am silly at times. My thinking is pretty chaotic at times but I've learned to order it with Te and I've learned critical thinking. I don't pretend to be logical person and I enjoy my own mental processes and I also enjoy when I can discuss and use it with a person who is cabable of understaning the Ne flow.

    It's not anything that forces me to use Ne. It's just that I am me, myself and I. I am who I am. I accept myself as I am (but I also seek to develop myself in some aspects) and I love using my best (and sometimes worst) qualities. Ne produces me the FLOW that has been discussed here.

    I would certainly love to go back to my purest Ne state when I was younger. That creative state of mind is something to look for. That could certainly be the purpose of my life. To use my Ne creativity flow.

    See - I just love it.

  4. #4
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,658

    Default

    Agreed. Fi is way more vulnerable. But like you, Athenian, I too shunned using Ne in public. This was only after I got to high school though. I changed primary schools very early on because the one I went to was so rigid. The one I went to was free-spirited. Also I had 3 older Ne-users in the house, so it was..kinda normal.

    Once I went to high school, I curbed both Ne and Fi as far as I could, though occasionally I just burst, because of Ne going buckwild and Fi being exposed. Along the road there, I learned some Fe and Ni..I think, to keep a low profile in society and still survive.

    The only places where I let Ne and Fi out was with my friends at the dance school, one time a week (they had a dance-evening there). Later on, the internet became an incredible resource. So many people to meet, insights to be gathered, knowledge to be collected. And I also learned that playfullness, when correctly done, can be a calculating move to impact people in a positive way. Yes, manipulation, I know. I learned to tell which people would appreciate my craziness and which wouldn't. And adapted accordingly. Meanwhile I used the internet to research every crazy question that went through my head and find out what I'm passionate about in life. In college, I once more curbed it in front of others and saved it for my SO and a few trusted friends.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  5. #5
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    135 so/sp
    Posts
    8,697

    Default

    Don't you think that you are mixing feelings and intuition too much ?


    Jugdging from some of your threads I woud say "yes". Can it be that your actual "problem" here is Fe ?

  6. #6
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Don't you think that you are mixing feelings and intuition too much ?


    Jugdging from some of your threads I woud say "yes". Can it be that your actual "problem" here is Fe ?
    Yes. I am an NF, after all. How should I know what goes through the head of an NT? I don't claim to understand anything about you people, and in fact I probably can't. *shrug*

  7. #7
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I suppose the scariest thing about Ne to me, though, is the vulnerability. I mean, it pretty much means you're trusting the world around you and the situations you encounter to influence your ideas about things in a positive or meaningful direction, regardless of how screwed up, contrived, or unreasonable the part of the world you find yourself in may be. Basically, to some extent, you're letting yourself be controlled by the present situation, hunches, and context rather than anything beyond it.
    It's true about the vulnerability, but it doesnt actually mean that you are likely to become a pawn. That is too far of a leap. I think to be actually suffering from it, would need a person with a weak rational function aswell.

    What's true about the vulnerability, is that you in some situations consider far more variables to a scenario than the person in front of you. And if the person then gets you wrong, what is most often the case, it hurts.

    Cant say more, cause I didnt understand the rest of the text.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #8
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I've noticed that you think similarly to me on a few levels, but because you've got Ne and I've got Ni... you approach it differently, AND have so much more facility in navigating the social world. I'd be willing to bet that you made a lot more mistakes earlier on in life, because you impulsively acted out most of your hunches... but that you probably learned a lot more, and got a better "feel" for what was realistically possible, too. I always halted mine and thought them through, acted on a few but dismissed most of them, and while I probably made fewer mistakes in the eyes of others, I know almost nothing about reality. Funny how that works, I guess.
    Bingo. Hence my most basic problem with the IxxJ approach (especially ISxJ.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I do know that when I was much younger, I displayed signs of both Ni and Ne, but I definitely started to settle into Ni after being criticized by several teachers for doing something differently than how I was told, even though it made more sense. And I just know that I would feel unbelievably embarrassed displaying much intelligence or creativity in front of people in the real world now (though it's not as bad online). The way a lot of people would feel if they were seen naked or something.
    Yep, I guess that's the problem with Ni. I think the best approach for ENTPs is to just teach Ne how to simulate Ni via opening up Ti a little more. Seems to be working for me thus far, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I suppose the scariest thing about Ne to me, though, is the vulnerability. I mean, it pretty much means you're trusting the world around you and the situations you encounter to influence your ideas about things in a positive or meaningful direction, regardless of how screwed up, contrived, or unreasonable the part of the world you find yourself in may be. Basically, to some extent, you're letting yourself be controlled by the present situation, hunches, and context rather than anything beyond it.
    Yeah but the great thing about Ne (and also Se) is that you don't *need* a specific plan or direction for how to manipulate the outer world; you just jump in and work on it and something will present itself.

    And by the way, no, P morality comes from internally rigid Ji--we don't take our fundamental beliefs from the outer world often at all and we pride ourselves more on internal logical/ethical consistency than on outwardly measurable productivity...hence the basic P/J difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    So, I guess my question is... how exactly does showing creativity help you in life, and how do you manage to avoid feeling constantly embarrassed by it? I mean, does it just not register that it might make you look silly or inappropriate, do you just not care? Do you have something you tell yourself, or some kind of force inside that makes you keep doing it anyway? Just curious.
    It helps because Te/Fe goals are not important to us. We use an outwardly flexible and open attitude because our organizational drive is directed inwardly, so it's far more important that we have our internal perspective set straight than that we actually get stuff done in the outer world. I know you might think that's really weird and all, but...of course you do. You're a J.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #9
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    11,544

    Default

    Embarrassment passes and usually less painfully than one may expect so I simply don't let it stop me doing what I want or enjoy.

  10. #10
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    135 so/sp
    Posts
    8,697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Yes. I am an NF, after all. How should I know what goes through the head of an NT? I don't claim to understand anything about you people, and in fact I probably can't. *shrug*

    You are right, you probably can't.

    But I would say that the only thing that can make you embarrased are feelings. Since the intuition is just a way of perciving things. (by definition)


    It happened a number of times that some NF asks me "how can't I trust people just like that". But my answer is always the same a it is among the lines " Because they can't hurt me." (in psychological sense of course)

    Since the only real options in the end are that they will like it what is good and that they will not like it what is once again fine with me. Which is because I use alot of nothing to lose philosophy in life. (what does not mean that I will not calculate things)

    One of the reasons why I have managed to "survive" with my lifestyle so far is because I don't really need confirmation of others. Which is mostly because of deficit of feeling at all levels. So I think this is your actual problem.

    (just a thought)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-05-2014, 01:24 AM
  2. I'm not sure about my type anymore :(
    By pinkgraffiti in forum Enneagram
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 08-09-2013, 04:42 PM
  3. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-17-2010, 11:28 AM
  4. It's all about me. It's not all about me.
    By wolfy in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-17-2009, 12:50 AM
  5. [INFJ] Not Sure About my Type
    By jason_m in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-08-2008, 02:29 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO