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  1. #21
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I've noticed that you think similarly to me on a few levels, but because you've got Ne and I've got Ni... you approach it differently, AND have so much more facility in navigating the social world. I'd be willing to bet that you made a lot more mistakes earlier on in life, because you impulsively acted out most of your hunches... but that you probably learned a lot more, and got a better "feel" for what was realistically possible, too. I always halted mine and thought them through, acted on a few but dismissed most of them, and while I probably made fewer mistakes in the eyes of others, I know almost nothing about reality. Funny how that works, I guess.

    I do know that when I was much younger, I displayed signs of both Ni and Ne, but I definitely started to settle into Ni after being criticized by several teachers for doing something differently than how I was told, even though it made more sense. And I just know that I would feel unbelievably embarrassed displaying much intelligence or creativity in front of people in the real world now (though it's not as bad online). The way a lot of people would feel if they were seen naked or something.

    I suppose the scariest thing about Ne to me, though, is the vulnerability. I mean, it pretty much means you're trusting the world around you and the situations you encounter to influence your ideas about things in a positive or meaningful direction, regardless of how screwed up, contrived, or unreasonable the part of the world you find yourself in may be. Basically, to some extent, you're letting yourself be controlled by the present situation, hunches, and context rather than anything beyond it.

    So, I guess my question is... how exactly does showing creativity help you in life, and how do you manage to avoid feeling constantly embarrassed by it? I mean, does it just not register that it might make you look silly or inappropriate, do you just not care? Do you have something you tell yourself, or some kind of force inside that makes you keep doing it anyway?
    Relate to that. But instead of Ni I just hid in Ti.

    It can I suppose make you vunerable to the real world. But thats the beauty of it that in opening your self to the world and all the crazy possibilities it presents you make yourself open or "vunerable" to life.

    I don't know. Sometimes I do get really shy about it but mostly I just try not to think about it. And sure sometimes Ne fucks up and I end up in shit but I'd rather climb the mountain and fall off than not climb at all.
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  2. #22
    Senior Member Rachelinpa's Avatar
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    So, I guess my question is... how exactly does showing creativity help you in life, and how do you manage to avoid feeling constantly embarrassed by it? I mean, does it just not register that it might make you look silly or inappropriate, do you just not care? Do you have something you tell yourself, or some kind of force inside that makes you keep doing it anyway?
    I agree about the Fi being the scary vulnerable part too. Ne is fun, but not always accepted right away, which is fine on its own I think. I have INTP friends who utilize their Ne and do not care about the vulnerable part because of their lack of Fi (at least, I assume that's why).

    I think monitoring the Ne gets tiring after a while, and I'd rather just let it loose. It does register that I may look silly, but I guess being an ENFP, I'm okay with that... and if I've spent enough quality time developing the Fi, then I'm more likely to be okay with that because I know who I am, and I like who I am... if that makes sense. So yeah, I guess I do tell myself that Ne is fun and to restrict myself would be to deprive myself and others of the wild force of it all! Maybe it's boredom too that brings it on... haha. Can't stand the mundane for too long.

  3. #23
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    I usually only feel controlled when I allow the opinions of others to stifle my creativity.
    That sums up what I was thinking on reading the OP. Strange, Athenian, that you would regard the EP as the one being controlled by others' opinions, when in fact we act according to our hunches, quite often with little regard for others' opinions, whilst it seems the risk of others showing negative opinions to you and the fear you have of that is controlling you!
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  4. #24
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    That sums up what I was thinking on reading the OP. Strange, Athenian, that you would regard the EP as the one being controlled by others' opinions, when in fact we act according to our hunches, quite often with little regard for others' opinions, whilst it seems the risk of others showing negative opinions to you and the fear you have of that is controlling you!
    No, not just others opinions. The environment. The world around them. The situation. Letting their sense of how things are be influenced by it, when their experiences may be misleading. It's the shaping influence of external experience that I don't trust.

    I only let other's opinions control my actions in the sense of restraining me from certain actions, not my sense of what's possible... as odd as that sounds.

  5. #25
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    yeah it does sound pretty odd to me... I don't see how not directly observing and participating in the world can make you more likely to have a proper understanding of it!
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  6. #26
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Well, I might not be ENFP, but screw it, I'm answering anyway:

    Okay, I haven't read anything (hehe) but I'm just going to say that creativity is a wonderful thing, and no one should hide it, much less be embarrassed about it. I've been in an awesome mood lately because I have a new project which is helping me develop in new ways. I FEEL GREAT!!! I can brainstorm new ideas in an environment which is actually supportive and appreciative, and I feel like a flower in BLOOM! YIPPEEEEEEEEEE!
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    No, not just others opinions. The environment. The world around them. The situation. Letting their sense of how things are be influenced by it, when their experiences may be misleading. It's the shaping influence of external experience that I don't trust.

    I only let other's opinions control my actions in the sense of restraining me from certain actions, not my sense of what's possible... as odd as that sounds.
    It's just an Ne thing. We're comfortable playing on that field, so we do. It's not like we view the situation in isolation either. Also both ENFP and ENTPs judging functions are pretty solid internal functions. Neither really puts up with much crap getting into the system. So it isn't really a see it then just take it on board. When I was young I used to test everything to the point of stupidity before I'd believe it.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  8. #28
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i embarrass myself all the time by saying odd inappropriate things....but i can't really think of a time i've been embarrassed by my creativity...i throw ideas out there...i try them and sometimes they fail...i don't care...i'll just try something else...i learn by doing ya know?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #29
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    I don't get embarrassed about ideas. Ideas are ideas. Some will work, some now. But sometimes I do get a little embarrassed when I come back down to earth, like now for instance. I get over it pretty quick because I know it's not really my fault. If I didn't know any better I would say you are enjoying it. You must be because you make it happen over and over again.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I'd be willing to bet that you made a lot more mistakes earlier on in life, because you impulsively acted out most of your hunches... but that you probably learned a lot more, and got a better "feel" for what was realistically possible, too.
    An astute assumption.


    I do know that when I was much younger, I displayed signs of both Ni and Ne, but I definitely started to settle into Ni after being criticized by several teachers for doing something differently than how I was told, even though it made more sense. And I just know that I would feel unbelievably embarrassed displaying much intelligence or creativity in front of people in the real world now (though it's not as bad online). The way a lot of people would feel if they were seen naked or something.
    I don't know if you rummaged through the "NT - Child's play" (portrait of an NT child) thread, but, a lot of the ENTPs' anecdotal stories revolved around this very thing - the blatant shock, criticism and rejection from society for the way we were. Except, being ENTPs meant, such resistance, or, criticisms, only spurred us further to revolt and up our 'behaviours'. So, we owned our Ne, and revelled it in, right from the start, especially in the face of adversity. Telling us 'no' only helped us harness our Ne more.

    I suppose the scariest thing about Ne to me, though, is the vulnerability. I mean, it pretty much means you're trusting the world around you and the situations you encounter to influence your ideas about things in a positive or meaningful direction, regardless of how screwed up, contrived, or unreasonable the part of the world you find yourself in may be. Basically, to some extent, you're letting yourself be controlled by the present situation, hunches, and context rather than anything beyond it.
    Everyone is controlled, to an extent, by the limitations of their surroundings. Whether they want to be or not. Most don't realize this; ENxPs acknowledge this, and learn to navigate it to their advantage. If ya can't beat 'em, join 'em, and join 'em gooood.

    Secondly, I was conversing with Simulated world and I told him that sometimes I feel like my Ne is a hack. I.e. there's no particular 'originality', Ne just tells the answer that's already there, just in dismantled pieces, by putting it back together. Meaning, a lot of the associations, it's like, 'but, that's so obvious', it just so happens I pointed it out, but it was there for anyone/everyone to see. And, in this way, I don't see it is as vulnerable, because it is *out there*, for everyone to associate, to own, I just happen to be the one to do it. I'd feel more vulnerable if it was something personal, a personal thought of mine, that 'originated' from me (e.g. Ni), and I put it out there, versus, what I feel my Ne does, just takes what's there anyways (i.e. a reality) and pieces it together. To me, Ne is more detached personally for this reason, hence, less vulnerable.


    So, I guess my question is... how exactly does showing creativity help you in life, and how do you manage to avoid feeling constantly embarrassed by it? I mean, does it just not register that it might make you look silly or inappropriate, do you just not care? Do you have something you tell yourself, or some kind of force inside that makes you keep doing it anyway?
    Your answer; you answered it:

    Just curious.
    For the sake of curiosity, for the sake of chasing an idea to the fringes, I am willing to forego embarrassment. This is what keeps me doing it, anyway.

    And, as for feeling embarrassed, again, because Ne is external, I don't feel some personal attachment to the associations I make, because it's a 'logical' association (Ne+Ti) that could have been apparent to anyone. It didn't come from me, but, the world around me, which everyone (not just me) is privy to. Anyone could have made that association, so anyone could possibly be embarrrassed by it, it's everyone's to own. I just said it. That's the only difference between me and others. I just said it.

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