User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 20

  1. #1
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    3,272

    Default Ti/Te use and ideology

    It just popped into my mind how dominant Ti/Te users seem to have a different level of ideology behind their T use.

    I'll give a bit background. Dominant/secondary Te users are J's, and Ti users are P's.

    Js are often spoken of as having a goal. But, it seems to be the introverted function that brings the goal; Ni, Si for the Te users. Different kind of function use seems to attract criticism; using Te for Te's sake.

    Ps are often considered as enjoying learning, practicing, doing their favorite tasks. Considering T's, they're using Ti. Although dominant Ti users have other goals than just intellectual exercises, they seem more happy doing just things like that compared to the Te user.

    In both occasions I see it more advantageous - healthier perhaps - for the person's goal to come from the introverted function.

    As Te is rather tool-like, I'm seeing Te users gaining a basic understanding of most other functions on purely de-facto basis.

    Te: "Consolation (Fi, Fe) is what's done to lessen one's negative thought after loss. "
    Te: "Some traditions (Si, Fe) are observed to maintain one's relationships. "
    Te: "Complex situations should be analyzed (Ti) to find what's the best thing to do about it."
    Te: "If one is unemployed, he should seek a job (Se). Unemployment benefits shouldn't be too great, so people would feel inclined to work.(Te) "

    On the other hand, Ti users seem to offen suggest new world order where the world would change to their liking.

    Ti: "Consolation (Fi, Fe) would be unneeded if one didn't grief."
    Ti: "Some traditions (Si, Fe) are an archaic remnant of the needs to bond in a primitive culture."
    Ti: "Compared to analysis, just 'doing something' (Te) is short-sighted and tells of an unhealthy desire for control."
    Ti: "It's not right to force (Te) people participate in the capitalistic, materialistic system (Se) by the increased living costs."

    In other words, using Ti makes one wish the world would change, whereas using Te makes one use whatever's available to achieve the same goals.

    Of course, Te is paired up with Si or Ni, which are stubborn functions, and a source of hard-headedness, or insight.

    Ti is likewise paired up with Ne or Se, which are open, adaptable functions, using whatever's available to achieve the goals.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #2
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,442

    Default

    That's a very interesting observation.
    I can certainly testify to the "suggesting a new world order" thing, and often wondered whether than was Te/Fi, since it is described as "arranging the outer world" (according to "likes"). But then, you're not actually arranging the outer world, you're only doing it internally!
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  3. #3
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    3,272

    Default

    So it would seem. It's about making all of it consistent - if it isn't consistent and sensible in the outer world, one must provide an explanation for oneself to have true information in a consistent framework.

    If Te users neglect to ponder the consistency of the outer world, that of which is observed, do they strive for consistency in doing, in their agenda, or some other thing?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #4
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    3,272

    Default

    After enough of deadly silence, I'll sum up my initial wall of text again:

    Ti users often seem to wish everyone would be smart, thus avoiding most of the problems. In their ideal world, this would mostly involve the use of Ti.

    Te users notice how people historically, factually use all kinds of functions, and wishing it away doesn't make it go away. Hence they take other people's use of Fi, Fe, Se, etc as a fact, and adjust accordingly.

    Ti's wishful thinking is balanced by Ne/Se openmindedness, impulses and practicality, whereas Te's use as a possibly universal function is restricted by one's use of Ni and Si, which seek some kind of subjective closure.

    I am suggesting this as an alternative to the notion that Te is bad and Ti is smart.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #5
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Te/Ti is actually pretty simple.

    "Should my impersonal, logical organizing drive be directed outwardly toward my surroundings (Te) or inwardly toward my private inner principles (Ti)?"

    Te: Does it get the goal completed on schedule?
    Ti: Is it logically consistent on paper?


    I was recently mediating for an ENTP friend who:

    A) Was really bugged that his ISTJ girlfriend wouldn't stop pushing plans and schedules and routines and such on his daily life, and
    B) Was also really bugged that his ISTJ girlfriend wouldn't admit the total irrationality of her religious practice and give up her life-long faith.

    Well, duh. What do you expect from Si+Te? He was holding her to unreasonable Ti standards based on his own proficiency in Ti/inability to see any perspective other than Ti as equally "valid" to his own. Si seeks long term stability, safety and predictability, while Te takes a directive goal-oriented approach when working with the outer world. "Is God rationally consistent?" isn't even worth asking to Te; it's just not of concern. "Does participating in religious ceremony give me a sense of community, safety and support?" (Si.) "If it accomplishes that goal, whether or not God literally exists is not even relevant." (Te.)

    Ti, on the other hand, finds internal logical consistency in principle far more important than any externally measurable or verifiable goals, so ENTP is just baffled as to why his girlfriend would participate in something so clearly illogical! Again just Ti arrogance about its own perspective.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #6
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    3,272

    Default

    That's a good example.

    I'm thinking his Ne showed in; looking at all the possibilities in thinking, religious practice, deceit, sociological phenomena, doctrine, claims of different deities etc. he saw someone who had restricted her ideas too early.

    On another note, perhaps I should stop talking about Ti- users, Te users and such, if I actually mean someone who doesn't use some other function x..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #7
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Probably couldn't hurt.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #8
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    3h50
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,460

    Default

    Maybe not so much arrogance as a failure to incorporate all available data either due to lack of noticing or seeming irrelevancy - which does get us into trouble a lot.

  9. #9
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,442

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    So it would seem. It's about making all of it consistent - if it isn't consistent and sensible in the outer world, one must provide an explanation for oneself to have true information in a consistent framework.

    If Te users neglect to ponder the consistency of the outer world, that of which is observed, do they strive for consistency in doing, in their agenda, or some other thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Ti's wishful thinking is balanced by Ne/Se openmindedness, impulses and practicality, whereas Te's use as a possibly universal function is restricted by one's use of Ni and Si, which seek some kind of subjective closure.
    Ti is the universal one (just like Fi), and that is why it deals in consistency (just like Fi's "congruence"). As shown on this page: Fundamental Nature of the MBTI, the extraverted perception is what expands the "matrix" of objects the introverted judgment deals with to a wide (i.e. universal) area. Introverted perception localizes the extraverted judgment's area. Hence, Te would not be so much about consistency, but rather local efficiency.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  10. #10
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    ^ I'd say it's local efficiency in the case of Te+Si, but in the case of Te+Ni it's more global efficiency across numerous local networks.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

Similar Threads

  1. Comparing tertiary-strong Fi/Te's and Ti/Fe's...
    By ChrisC99 in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-05-2011, 09:51 PM
  2. Ti, Te and "Systems"
    By VagrantFarce in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 105
    Last Post: 02-20-2010, 08:15 AM
  3. People that are strong in Ni,Ti,Te and Ne
    By Virtual ghost in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-24-2008, 02:11 PM
  4. [JCF] Ti/Te and Math
    By Eric B in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 09-08-2008, 03:27 PM
  5. Ti's and Te's and Trees
    By labyrinthine in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 07-10-2007, 10:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO