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  1. #11
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    That's a good link.

    The page explained Te being used to order some localized area in our matrix of experience, and Ti being used to order and process a wide area. That's true in a sense that heavy Ti users seem to spend time thinking about anything, whereas Te isn't used to process and sort out everything, but just a specific areas of life.

    I agree that Ti tends to organize knowledge for a consistent world view in a global fashion, and it is a universal function in that regard.

    I'm claiming that a lot of activity in the world is dominated by strong local order, with inconsistencies to the global order. Acting in such local areas often requires one to see things from a local viewpoint, while working with many globally inconsistentent concepts and practices. Being process orientated, Te user might notice how the globally inconsistent practices might not end up hurting the end result, so it works, despite not being in line with the universal situation.

    Low Te user might not understand - or accept - the information flow of an inconsistent system (or person) well enough to predict it's outcome. In that case, Te user might be more willing to create disorder and order at the same time. In this sense, I'm seeing Te as a potentially "universal" function, able to act in many fields by learning and creating processes in those areas. Perhaps this is behind the "ideology" of Ti I've noticed, when compared to Te.
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  2. #12
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    That's a good link.

    The page explained Te being used to order some localized area in our matrix of experience, and Ti being used to order and process a wide area. That's true in a sense that heavy Ti users seem to spend time thinking about anything, whereas Te isn't used to process and sort out everything, but just a specific areas of life.
    I'm not sure I agree with that interpretation, as I would chalk that NTP/NTJ difference more up to differences in Ne/Ni than in Te/Ti.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    I agree that Ti tends to organize knowledge for a consistent world view in a global fashion, and it is a universal function in that regard.
    Fair, but Fi does the same...it just considers its humanitarian standards equally "global" to Ti's logical standards, and thus objectively certain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    I'm claiming that a lot of activity in the world is dominated by strong local order, with inconsistencies to the global order. Acting in such local areas often requires one to see things from a local viewpoint, while working with many globally inconsistentent concepts and practices. Being process orientated, Te user might notice how the globally inconsistent practices might not end up hurting the end result, so it works, despite not being in line with the universal situation.
    That's true, but note also that SJs are waaaaaay more common than NJs, so Te is going to be paired up with Si a lot more often than with Ni, and thus will be applied to a localized context more often simply due to strength in numbers...but it doesn't mean Te automatically operates that way in a vacuum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Low Te user might not understand - or accept - the information flow of an inconsistent system (or person) well enough to predict it's outcome. In that case, Te user might be more willing to create disorder and order at the same time. In this sense, I'm seeing Te as a potentially "universal" function, able to act in many fields by learning and creating processes in those areas. Perhaps this is behind the "ideology" of Ti I've noticed, when compared to Te.
    Yes, all functions are, in a way, potentially universal...but yes, Ti and Te share a similar ideology, just operating in different realms (the same can also be said of Ti and Fi...context is everything!)
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  3. #13
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with that interpretation, as I would chalk that NTP/NTJ difference more up to differences in Ne/Ni than in Te/Ti.
    It's both. Ni/Ne are what establish the matrix area.

    Fair, but Fi does the same...it just considers its humanitarian standards equally "global" to Ti's logical standards, and thus objectively certain.
    Right. Both introverted judgments will be global, from the area established by the extraverted perception.
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  4. #14
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu
    In other words, using Ti makes one wish the world would change, whereas using Te makes one use whatever's available to achieve the same goals.
    I'm inclined to agree with you. Te is about doing and is a more aggressive function by nature..
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  5. #15
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    How about this?

    Ti better makes use of deductive reasoning -- theory --> hypothesis --> observation --> confirmation

    Te better makes use of inductive reasoning -- observation --> pattern --> tentative hypothesis --> theory

    Speaking from experience as an ENFP with Te function, I've noticed that I use my thinking mostly for organizational purposes, both internally and externally. I don't recall my "new world order" ideas coming from Te very often, if at all. Those ideas seem to come from Ne-Fi: hunches about the external environment + internal value system based on feeling = ideas about what's new and illuminating

  6. #16
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ Nope, that's a good guess but not actually how it lines up.

    Your deductive vs. inductive reasoning analogy is actually a function of Sensing vs. iNtuition, and has little to nothing to do with Te/Ti.

    Sensing tends to operate in deductive terms: either it definitely is or it definitely isn't, and if we aren't certain then we don't have any useful information because we lack concrete details.

    iNtuition operates more in inductive terms: Rather than "yes/no", the question becomes, "How much?" or "To what degree?"

    The example I like to give is:

    An S statement: He has a .386 batting average. Clearly this is either definitely true or definitely untrue, and can be measured and proven or disproven factually. (Te would actually prefer this over most N statements.)

    An N statement: He hits better than other batters. This question is much harder to answer in binary terms, since "other batters" isn't really clearly defined and we don't have any definite information...but nonetheless it can be a useful statement in the right context.

    Note that the N statement doesn't actually know any specific information about that player, but only how he compares to other players. That's where induction comes in.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberrylover View Post
    How about this?

    Ti better makes use of deductive reasoning -- theory --> hypothesis --> observation --> confirmation

    Te better makes use of inductive reasoning -- observation --> pattern --> tentative hypothesis --> theory

    Speaking from experience as an ENFP with Te function, I've noticed that I use my thinking mostly for organizational purposes, both internally and externally. I don't recall my "new world order" ideas coming from Te very often, if at all. Those ideas seem to come from Ne-Fi: hunches about the external environment + internal value system based on feeling = ideas about what's new and illuminating

    Strawberry I am an board with you on some of this. SW I think NeTe can do some seriously odd shit. Tert Te allows us to apply Te to the Ne input. Ne funnels in the observations, makes the pattarns connect/form, then Te structures boxes around the patterns, and we build theories. Also Te seems to allow us to identify inconsistancies in the connectivity maps/patterns-better than an NeTi can do.

    To implement the new world order Te would be useful.

  8. #18
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    That's what's usually assumed, but I just see Ti users to wish for it more. Te users recognize the futility of affecting the people at large, so they just concentrate on what they can do.

    Ti user knows they don't go killing people, even if they wished for the non-existence of a certain demographic group. Like said, it's just putting their own minds in order. And it ain't Te. Not necessarily, perhaps even not probably.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    ^ Nope, that's a good guess but not actually how it lines up.

    Your deductive vs. inductive reasoning analogy is actually a function of Sensing vs. iNtuition, and has little to nothing to do with Te/Ti.

    Sensing tends to operate in deductive terms: either it definitely is or it definitely isn't, and if we aren't certain then we don't have any useful information because we lack concrete details.

    iNtuition operates more in inductive terms: Rather than "yes/no", the question becomes, "How much?" or "To what degree?"
    I don't think I agree with that.

    Sensing/intuition as irrational functions only tell us about a person's information gathering method, that is: Does this person leap at concrete details or grab at abstract concepts with regards to himself and his surroundings?

    These irrational functions don't tell us about how that person defines the information gathered. That's the role of the rational functions Te/Ti/Fe/Fi.

    I just threw out the inductive/deductive thing out there as a hunch. It seems to me that deductive reasoning is more linear -- Ti, whereas inductive reasoning synthesizes different ideas -- Te.

    Ti seems more concerned with origin, questioning the essential meaning of things. Te seems more utilitarian and compromising, rooted more in the real world due to the extroversion.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    Strawberry I am an board with you on some of this. SW I think NeTe can do some seriously odd shit. Tert Te allows us to apply Te to the Ne input. Ne funnels in the observations, makes the pattarns connect/form, then Te structures boxes around the patterns, and we build theories. Also Te seems to allow us to identify inconsistancies in the connectivity maps/patterns-better than an NeTi can do.

    To implement the new world order Te would be useful.
    Just wanted to add a few things, to me Te acts out the theories which I think is the odd shit. Then you are able to use Si and Fi to internally judge the theory. Thats why ENFP have the more lets try it and see what happens attitude. The other thing is that NeTe can identify better is because of the try it attitude and have a definitive answer. They dont rely so much on whats in there head.

    Now for TiNi in an ISTP have a more lets figure this thing out mentality. We take in what we see and mentally try to tie it all together before we act on it.

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