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  1. #1
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Default Ti/Te users: Explain the differences.

    I'm trying to further my understanding of the differences between Ti and Te. I know that they are both logical functions that make decisions oriented on the impersonal/objective factor. I think my abstract definitions, previously posted here, are potentially useful.

    Ti -- Modifies/understands an external system via internal rules/principles.
    Te -- Modifies/understands an external system via external rules/procedures.

    What I'm interested in now, is how users of each function see their own use of it, and how they contrast themselves with a user of the oppositely directed version of the Thinking function. Depending on how many respond, we may also be able to explain/understand the differences between the dominant and auxiliary roles of each type of Thinking.

    My theory about Thinking in general, whether it's introverted or extraverted, is that it tries to be primarily oriented to that which is outside the self-perception, the external system, or the objective factor, as much as possible. I think Ti is more focused on understanding/explaining the objective factor as completely/precisely as possible, and Te is more focused on applying the objective factor to situations as impersonally as possible.

    So, please attempt to describe how your thinking function works for you.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I think Ti is more focused on understanding/explaining the objective factor as completely/precisely as possible, and Te is more focused on applying the objective factor to situations as impersonally as possible.
    That's a good way of putting it. The way I explain it, since I'm not a believer in functions is;

    Ti - The organisation of data to account for every possibility/interpretation the data provides

    Te - The organisation of data to derive the optimal possibility that the data provides

    The conjuction of J and T means that the the world must be structured - it must follow a logical line. They are, as such, actors, creating the order they see from the data they provide. P and T are the observers - they don't need the order and so they simply interpret data.

    Both are rational functions, interpreters of data. One wants to see clarity - to see everything, how it fits, how it works... the other wants to see order - to see that order, how things lead from one to the other. In the end, the Ti seeks information (ie: puts pressure on Ne/Se) while the Te seeks guidance (Ni/Si).

  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    What I find when I look around is that I am constantly trying to understand "what" something is, so that I can then relate it to my large picture/model of the world.

    I have little interest in manipulating it and, in fact, manipulating it often muddies the water and makes it more unclear as to what the thing actually "is."

    I still do try to accomplish tasks in the external world; but my instinctive approach is to develop a strategy rather than a detailed checklist. I develop a general plan based on how things interact that can then be applied to specific situations, in order to acquire the desired results or at least maximize the result and minimize effort and conserve resources.

    I have trouble just "implementing" things especially by just applying brute force, it feels so disingenuous or inelegant, and I keep looking for some sort of "magic lever/button," where a minimal amount of force can be applied to resolve the situation. But life does not work like that.

    Also, when I go into a problem, I tend to talk about the framework of the situation and all the pieces that are interacting. My effort is focused on the model and its functioning. Te seems to focus much more quickly on solutions, whereas I am often much more fascinated by "how it works" rather than "making it do what I want."

    Because I'm not really sure what "I" want, so how can I bend the system to my will? (Instead, I need to know what "it" is before I know what "I" want... because my strategy is to make something work as smoothly and as "true to itself" as possible.) My goal generally is to make things more fully what they already are in their nature.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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  4. #4
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Ti for me is a tertiary function... but I think how I use it is quite similar to what Jennifer described. In terms of thinking and analyzing. Ti for me tries to make different things fit into a model (Ni). It provides explanation and support for "theories". Then it usually does a self-check for consistency. As in.... "If this is true... then what are the consequences? Do these possibilities make sense? Does it fit into everything else I know about on this topic?" Whenever it finds problems, it modifies the system until the internal model reflects the external world as closely as possible. I suppose all of this was created with the intent of application, using it as a predictive tool etc. However most of the time I just play for the sake of playing. =/

    Te... I'm afraid my views on it will be bias. People that mostly use Te I find are too rigid. For example, INTJs, their need to systematically organize everything, to alway do something in one way gets annoying. The only rare occasion in which I use Te is in understanding data. Say somebody hands me a page full of results... what conclusions can I draw from it? I only go around using Te if the answer isn't immediately apparent. Organize the data, then find patterns in it (Ne related?) in order to try fitting the results with what I know previously, that internal model again.

    Random implementation... unlike Jennifer I have no problems with it. (Could be related to the fact that I'm an NF therefore Ti/Te is not my primary nor auxiliary function) It's okay if it's not elegant... prototypes never are. It gets the job done this time around... and if I feel like not being so darn lazy, I'll get around to improving it.... eventually. :P

  5. #5
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I'm trying to further my understanding of the differences between Ti and Te. I know that they are both logical functions that make decisions oriented on the impersonal/objective factor. I think my abstract definitions, previously posted here, are potentially useful.

    Ti -- Modifies/understands an external system via internal rules/principles.
    Te -- Modifies/understands an external system via external rules/procedures.

    What I'm interested in now, is how users of each function see their own use of it, and how they contrast themselves with a user of the oppositely directed version of the Thinking function. Depending on how many respond, we may also be able to explain/understand the differences between the dominant and auxiliary roles of each type of Thinking.

    My theory about Thinking in general, whether it's introverted or extraverted, is that it tries to be primarily oriented to that which is outside the self-perception, the external system, or the objective factor, as much as possible. I think Ti is more focused on understanding/explaining the objective factor as completely/precisely as possible, and Te is more focused on applying the objective factor to situations as impersonally as possible.

    So, please attempt to describe how your thinking function works for you.
    The difference evident is in art and architecture.

    Te

    rectangular
    angular
    concrete
    plain
    sober
    regular
    usual
    useful
    stingy
    mercenary
    sordid

    Ti

    embellished
    ornate
    bedecked
    garnished
    florid
    rich
    useless
    tricky
    pompous
    vain
    fantastic
    exciting
    animated
    lifting
    graceful
    urbane

  6. #6
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    I think I'm using Ti to manage my internal database about subjects, their groupings, relevances, merits and their contexts. This is ment for the purpose that I may find a new, novel combination of information which can be put to good use.

    So when I find something promising, I try to find a good match with the set of "good ideas" with the set of "things that I can do". I realize that any actualization of my ideas will have to rely on Te, so I use also Te in my analysis to decide whether I can actually go through the idea given the constrains (time, money, etc). Most often I just have an intuitive feeling (Ne) about the idea, that this or that does or doesn't seem like something that could/should be done. When it's a close call, I have to use Te to plan more carefully.

    So I use Te to project how my plan will work out in real world, and also to actually do the work. Imagining how a program would work can be done with Ne/Ti and a bit of S and Te, but making it work needs much more Te and S. I also consider using Te as a liability, or an expense. I think I use Ne and Ti at my best speed, and I'm rarely disappointed with their speed. On the opposite, Te is slower, so I consider it a limited resource, which I have to utilize better. So I rather spend time thinking on how to improve a project rather than doing the actual Te tasks.

    Recently I scored from best to worst functions: Ti, Fi, Ne, Ni, Se, Te, Se, Fe.

  7. #7
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    People that mostly use Te I find are too rigid. For example, INTJs, their need to systematically organize everything, to alway do something in one way gets annoying.
    This isn't a big INTJ thing, IMO. I see this more in my STJ husband. I'll use whatever way works best.

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  8. #8
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    Re the OP: I'm really not sure when I'm using Te vs Ti. I use them both. A lot.

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  9. #9
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    I have to admit that I'm really confused about the difference as well. Everything Jennifer said in her post resonates strongly with me. I definitely have a little model of the universe I carry around in my mind and constantly update in an ongoing effort to make it as accurate a model as possible. I'm also forever on the lookout for "levers" I can pull to receive the maximum payback for minimum effort.

    Something I find myself thinking frequently is, "All right, now that you've been able to step back and realize what this thing really is, let's try to step back one step further."

    I rarely find myself applying the A to B to C logic that is supposed to be incidental to my type. I reserve that sort of thinking primarily for developing and updating my overall "game plan".
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  10. #10
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Introversion-Define the world in accordance to the way it relates to the subject. Take the subject for granted

    Extroversion-Define the subject in accordance to the way it relates to the world. Take the world for granted.

    Thinking-Decisions made based on impersonal criteria, usually logic.

    Introverted Thinking-Defines the world based on internally inquiry. Nothing is taken for granted and everything is to be questioned. The system is crafted from within.

    Extroverted Thinking-Takes the world for granted and applies proffered ideas to solve external problems.

    You could think of Te as a practical problem solver and Ti as a theoretical problem solver. Thus the Te is the practical advice giver and Ti a complex problem solver.



    Same analogy is sound for Fi/Fe comparison.

    Fe is concerned with applying passions to help people/take care of practical problems, Fi theorizes about what the perfect world would be like and how in the realm of pure feeling (analogously to pure reason) hypotethetical problems could be solved.

    Same is true for Ni and Ne.

    Ni is the realm of pure imagination and Ne is the realm of applied ideas. Si treats facts and memories as an end in itself and Se is only concerned with facts and memories that are easily evoked by external stimuli.

    Introverted functions are about the property of the subject. E.G, your thoughts, feelings, intuitions, memories. Extroverted functions are mostly concerned with properties of the world and what you can do to manipulate those properties around. Ne manipulates external ideas around, Te external rationalizations, Fe external sentiments, Se memories pertaining to clear-cut external activities--usually group activities (this is why ESPs tend to be the most fraternal, their memories are mostly focused on what happened in group activities. Unlike Sis, the more individualistic sensors who are focused more on memories that were important to them), and Se also manipulates concrete impulses of how to indulge in sensual pleasures and manipulates concrete facts in an analogous fashion to how Ne maneuvers around external ideas.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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