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  1. #61
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    I would discuss the theory with you, see where you are going with it and try to figure out what your 'point' is in telling me this. Though I could continue to discuss something without applying it if it was something like 'art history' or design, pros and cons of emissions testing, etc. I think I'm more like your father. What type is he?
    My father is an ENTJ, though not a typical one due to his exposure to MBTI for the last 14 years or so..

    As for my "point".. I'm of the school that believes that trying to harshly define things in terms of psychology harms as much as it helps. I don't see introversion and extroversion as black and white.. more labels assigned to people who display a disposition for preferring certain things. I guess that's always been enough for me.

    What lead me to this thinking is that introverts are described as needing time alone to recharge and extraverts needing time in company.. however having spoken to extraverts and introverts the opposite is also true and often more marked by the subject. An extravert will usually be quick to point out how they need alone time to feel okay (presumably because it stands out in comparison to their normal routine). With all the contradiction in people I gave up on strict definitions even in theory.

    However to try to define things for this discussion my father refers to introverts as primarily concerned with the world inside their heads... that made a lot of sense to me. As an INTP I'm more concerned with how much sense things make to me rather than whether they work in the real world.

    Conversely I've found in discussions with my INTJ friend that he's more concerned with the practicalities of an idea more than it's exact infrastructure and internal consistency.

    Note I'm only postulating that this could be a good measure to Ti vs Te...
    I like to put together a committe to get something done. "I'm in charge, Bob you are doing ......, Jane, would you prefer to do X or Y? Great, now lets get this done asap. Let's meet again on the 24th."
    I'm not so commanding in that sense. I am often leading our social circle but more due to everyone else refusing to make a decision than any great desire to be centre stage.
    I believe getting involved like that is what's missing in my life at the moment.
    Quite possibly. Hell even if you're an introvert it could be that which is missing.. I know I've had more fun since I dropped the whole seclusion clause in my social contract
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    The whole "analyzing, categorizing, etc" definition is largely from Berens, and that does sometimes become a distraction from the root meaning of the function. You also hear "subjective models and frameworks", as well as "underlying frameworks" of external objects.
    What I think that is, is that because Ti works with a subjective conclusion or model, the analyzing is the result of trying to fit the object to that subjective model. Often when trying to remember something with multiple parts; I will look for parallels, or other logical groups to gather them into fewer, more easily memorable packets of data. The "ordering" or arranging is being done internally, in this case, and it sometimes can then be directed outward if I then make a table of it, or suggest the groupings to people. That would be Te backing up Ti, and I believe it is a common mistake of people seeing this process then label professing Ti types as Te users.

    I also love four-way mirror symmetries, which would include personality matrices. That's what drew me into the subject. In the ancient temperament model, it was expressed (E/I) vs. responsive (people/task) behavior, yielding four basic types, with adjacent types sharing something in common. Add in moderate scales, you can have five or more. When discovering MBTI, I saw that they were divided, however unofficially, into the Keirseyan groupings, with a matrix of two factors that seemed totally unrelated to the ancient ones. (S/N and Cooperative/Pragmatic). I then analyzed the whole thing to find out how both systems correspond, and I came up with something that seems to at least roughly work, and Neuroticism fit in as an added bonus. (Though some thought the process of matching the two systems was Te; what I was doing in the end was identifying a common framework).

    Because Ti delights in stuff like symmetries, users of it will be naturally drawn to stuff like personality matrices with a focus on the details and parts of it.
    It almost sounds like you need to keep talking. Explain in depth if you can what definitions are made by these four factors, especially Te and Ti.

  3. #63
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Generally, Te="Will it work?" and Ti="Is it correct?" Te determines correctness as well, but more in a sense of efficiency, while Ti is more about what's underlying.
    You said "four factors, especially Te and Ti", what other two are you asking about? Fe and Fi? Or did you mean the temperament factors I had mentioned?
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Athenian 1, lemons 0.
    Agreed

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Agreed
    I doubt my description is worse than Athenians, especially since his isn't saying much. Internal rules or principles? I'm quite sure a principle can be an external rule. Any source can be given the same set of rules. There is no difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    Your guys' definitions are good, but not the best.

    Te - exercising your knowledge

    Ti - gaining an understanding

    One you usually do more than the other. Well developed Ti actually makes for the best analyst. Te is occasionally like troubleshooting.
    Happens to be the best one so far, one of the few here which are applicable to the real world. I could not have put it any simpler.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Fe and Fi?
    Yes I was referring to feeling as you mentioned cooperative.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    Happens to be the best one so far, one of the few here which are applicable to the real world. I could not have put it any simpler.
    -10 for giving your own post a compliment.

  7. #67
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    +10 for being right
    +10 for actually explaining the differences
    +10 for keeping the answer simple
    +10 for ruling out contradictory explanations

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    -10 for giving your own post a compliment.
    -10 for stealing my points

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypocalypse View Post
    Ti = strategy
    Te = tactics
    Quite so.

  8. #68
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    Te is Jesus and Ti is Satan.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Te is Jesus and Ti is Satan.
    +10 for using the correct type of logic to figure that out for us

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    +10 for being right
    +10 for actually explaining the differences
    +10 for keeping the answer simple
    +10 for ruling out contradictory explanations
    You're incredibly wrong, but that never stopped you before. The closest you got to being right about anything was during plagiarism.

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