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Relationships of Duality

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I didn't know it was supposed to be a good match. LOL. I've been chuckling about that all day. But yeah, I would gladly hope for you to find the same! It's pretty great.

It seems like with ESTPs you can bounce ideas off of them and they will give you all the input you want (in their own realistic way of course) simply because they love people, and if they love you (as a friend or anything greater) then that will make them want to listen even more. I dunno, there is a very specific chemistry with ESTPs that has been awesome for me. It seems like with each other's points of views and humor that it's so different that it's captivating. With my humor usually the ESTPs just sit there in awe as I'm joking around, and I usually do the same when they are joking around. Their points of view are just so drastically different from mine, but in a non offensive way. I like it. I also get this same experience but to a lesser extent with ISTPs.
 

Matthew_Z

That chalkboard guy
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
1,256
MBTI Type
xxxx
ESTp (ESTP) - INFj (INFP) is actually a CONFLICTOR pairing, not dual. These types are supposed to have a hard time understanding each other. While they may appear similar to the dual and thus give both persons high hopes in their interactions, the relationship will have major barriers that will quite possibly kill the relationship.

Read up on it:
Conflict - Wikisocion
Conflicting relations between psychological ("personality") types

On a side note, the (hopefully) successful relationship between an INFP and an ESTP should strongly suggest that MBTI =/= Socionics. Consequently, this should also significantly hurt any chances of duality cleanly applying to MBTI.
 

Wiley45

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2009
Messages
669
MBTI Type
INFP
It seems like with ESTPs you can bounce ideas off of them and they will give you all the input you want (in their own realistic way of course) simply because they love people, and if they love you (as a friend or anything greater) then that will make them want to listen even more. I dunno, there is a very specific chemistry with ESTPs that has been awesome for me. It seems like with each other's points of views and humor that it's so different that it's captivating. With my humor usually the ESTPs just sit there in awe as I'm joking around, and I usually do the same when they are joking around. Their points of view are just so drastically different from mine, but in a non offensive way. I like it. I also get this same experience but to a lesser extent with ISTPs.

Yes, I have a female friend who is also ESTP, and we hit it off really well. It's always comfortable and fun hanging out with her, and she seems to just sort of know exactly what I'm thinking and what I need. (I think the same is true of her feeling comfortable and cared for by me as well.) The other day we were at the park and there was a big party of some sort going on. She said, "Hey! Let's see what's happening over there," and then dragged me over before I could argue and did all the talking with everybody. Haha. I would have never gone by myself, but we had a ton of fun together and it was not hard work for me. Both my SO and my ESTP friend are really different from me, but I agree that it's almost captivating, and also non offensive to hear their points of view.

My brother is an ISTP, and we get along pretty well too. Once in a while I want to kick him, but then again, he is my brother...
 

527468

deleted
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
The (Jungian, 1st tier) Socionics Dichotomies are as follows:
Introversion/ Extraversion
Sensing (or sensory)/ Intuition
Ethics/ Logic
Irrational/ Rational

While those are the standard names for the dichotomies, Ethics/ Logic can also be known as Feeling/ Thinking, and Irrational/ Rational can be known Perceiving/ Judging. These less commonly heard aliases are occasionally used, especially when comparing or referencing Socionics with other systems such as Jung's and the Myers-Briggs.

Naturally, Ethics/ Logic is referred to as Feeling/ Thinking more than Irrational/ Rational is to Perceiving/ Judging simply because Jung himself (argued to be a forefather of Socionics) called the functions Feeling and Thinking, while Judging/Perceiving is used in systems developed after Jung, notably MBTI.

Right. They have the same names, but they aren't the same terms. That is where there seems to be confusion with a lot of people when you try to explain the theory this way. Much of this cross application is wishful thinking.
 

Wiley45

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2009
Messages
669
MBTI Type
INFP
ESTp (ESTP) - INFj (INFP) is actually a CONFLICTOR pairing, not dual. These types are supposed to have a hard time understanding each other. While they may appear similar to the dual and thus give both persons high hopes in their interactions, the relationship will have major barriers that will quite possibly kill the relationship.

I know nothing about socionics, so it's a good thing I didn't put any stock in such things when I got into a relationship with my ESTP. :)
 

Wiley45

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2009
Messages
669
MBTI Type
INFP
So Matthew_Z, I'm confused.

My INFP (MBTI) type is actually INFj in Socionics?

A while ago I took a test that labeled me IEI, and that corresponds to the INFp type in Socionics, according to this page: Who is who?. Also, I took a test at this Socionics site that you linked earlier, and my test results labeled me as INFp. Can you help me understand this? I think you already explained some things earlier in the thread, but I'm still a little confused.
 

Costrin

rawr
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
2,320
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
5w4
Socionics and MBTI types do not correlate exactly. For example I'm ILE in Socionics, but I know other MBTI INTPs that are ILI, LII, and LIE. Treat your Socionics and MBTI type as different.
 

Wiley45

New member
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Mar 3, 2009
Messages
669
MBTI Type
INFP
OK, thanks, Costrin. I'm not even going near the Socionics thing. Hah. Too confusing for me, and some of the descriptions seem weird to me. I'll just stick with MBTI for now, thanks. :)
 

527468

deleted
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
Socionics and MBTI types do not correlate exactly. For example I'm ILE in Socionics, but I know other MBTI INTPs that are ILI, LII, and LIE. Treat your Socionics and MBTI type as different.

Yes, I actually know an INTJ who is an SEE (ESFp) in socionics. It's not fucked up at all, it's just a different system.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
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Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yes, I actually know an INTJ who is an SEE (ESFp) in socionics. It's not fucked up at all, it's just a different system.

Yes. It is totally different. There isn't much of a translation.

Just like how I'm an MBTI INFP and a socionics ISFj.
 

Matthew_Z

That chalkboard guy
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
1,256
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xxxx
Yes. It is totally different. There isn't much of a translation.

Just like how I'm an MBTI INFP and a socionics ISFj.
I really need to get a faster stopwatch to monitor how long it takes you to jump from INFP to ISFP and back to INFP.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
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Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
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9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I really need to get a faster stopwatch to monitor how long it takes you to jump from INFP to ISFP and back to INFP.

Dude. I was an ISFP for an experiment for less than 2 days. People need to chill the hell out.
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
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ENTJ
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7w8
I've only been in relationships (romantic) with ISFJ girls. Always been naturally attracted to them. So, I think it totally works.
 

Unique

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Oct 14, 2008
Messages
1,702
the swapping the J and P around for introverts to translate to socionics is the biggest crock of s**t and whoever first said it should die in a fire
 

wastrd

Permabanned
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
149
MBTI Type
INTP
the swapping the J and P around for introverts to translate to socionics is the biggest crock of s**t and whoever first said it should die in a fire

but it's true! I read it in Wikipedia.

Topic: nope, ESFs don't work for me.
 

Poki

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Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
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STP
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sx/so
I can tell you the duality between ENFP and ISTP. This is aside from romantic or feeling side of the relationships which most here try to relate it to, just the connection that exists. When problems arise, ENFP face it with NeTe which is a try it attitude, ISTP face it with TiNi or a lets analyze this attitude. What ENFP does is provide the data because of there lets try it attitude for the ISTP to say, ok lets figure out what all happened and why and feeds it back to NeTe to try it. ITSPs need real life data to compare, we are not as good at figuring out what is gonna happen. We like analyzing what happened.
 

look.to.the.sky

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Jun 23, 2009
Messages
11
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
2w3
I've skimmed through this topic because I find it interesting how there's this mix between MBTI and Socionics that happens sometimes... As people have been saying, types don't exactly translate between the two. And noting from a couple posts, the types do NOT have the same functions, nor are the functions the same definitions... So you can't apply MBTI types to Socionic's intertype relations. You have to find out the Socionics type for yourself and everyone involved, and then apply the relations. That means learning how Socionics defines the IEs and functions... All that fun stuff lol
 

ladyinspring

New member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
76
MBTI Type
INFP
I agree with Matthew; there isn't any way to take the Socionics concept of duality and apply it to MBTI. The main reason being that even in cases where the first two cognitive functions/information elements are in the same spot, the Socionics ordering and the MBTI ordering are quite different from that point on. This might not be too bad as far as trying to type oneself, but it completely throws the intertype relations like duality out of whack. The intertype relations completely rely on the order in which the "functions" appear.

What MBTI calls "cognitive functions" (like introverted feeling) Socionics calls "information elements" and they will show up differently according to where they appear in a person's function order. Also, they aren't all the same. Socionics introverted sensing and extraverted sensing bear very little resemblance to the MBTI versions.
 

snegledmaca

New member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
145
I think fictional examples of duality, as in television shows and so on, can demonstrate duality quite well as well. That is, can be used as learning examples of what a particular duality looks like, what characterizes it. For example, of the top of my head, the show Flintstones strikes me as a nice example of IEI - SLE duality.

I've only been in relationships (romantic) with ISFJ girls. Always been naturally attracted to them. So, I think it totally works.

Didn't you say the same thing for INFP-s?
 
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