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  1. #41
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    ISFP could easily be a dual for me.
    MBTI Type: iNTj
    Enneagram Type: 3w4 sp/sx

  2. #42
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    I've had sex with every type. So technically this theory works perfectly.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinspring View Post
    I agree with Matthew; there isn't any way to take the Socionics concept of duality and apply it to MBTI. The main reason being that even in cases where the first two cognitive functions/information elements are in the same spot, the Socionics ordering and the MBTI ordering are quite different from that point on. This might not be too bad as far as trying to type oneself, but it completely throws the intertype relations like duality out of whack. The intertype relations completely rely on the order in which the "functions" appear.

    What MBTI calls "cognitive functions" (like introverted feeling) Socionics calls "information elements" and they will show up differently according to where they appear in a person's function order. Also, they aren't all the same. Socionics introverted sensing and extraverted sensing bear very little resemblance to the MBTI versions.
    To make things more confusing socionics wiki has an element name and an abstract definition. While Si element name is "Introverted sensing" the abstract definition is "external dynamics of fields". So is it internal or external?

  4. #44
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    ENFJ and ISTJ.......I could see that.
    I N V I C T U S

  5. #45
    Junior Member look.to.the.sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    To make things more confusing socionics wiki has an element name and an abstract definition. While Si element name is "Introverted sensing" the abstract definition is "external dynamics of fields". So is it internal or external?
    It's introverted and therefore internal because the perception hinges on the persons subjective experience, and needs the subjective experience. But Si is the subjective reaction/adaptation to external fields... It's a whole thing to read up on :P It's confusing at first, because there's a lot thrown at you, but it makes you feel a lot more depth in the types.
    pursuing my true self

  6. #46
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Im pretty certain me and an ISFx would kill each other.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinspring View Post
    I agree with Matthew; there isn't any way to take the Socionics concept of duality and apply it to MBTI.

    I disagree with this general notion, not only as it applies to duality.

    I will make my case in game-form.

    I encourage you to try this if you have not looked into socioncs!
    I'm going to put out sixteen unbroken, unaltered quotes. You try to guess which quote represents which MBTI type. The catch is that all quotes will come from Socionics.com.


    1.Whatever XXXXs do, they try to extract a practical use from it. They are definitely not the type who will work powered only by enthusiasm. They may seem a little slow to start new work, but once they are in motion they will try to achieve the maximum possible return. They are very practical people.

    XXXXs demand complete independence. They only allow people to get close up to a certain point, where they are still out of the range from outside influence. XXXXs value their friends and friendships very much. XXXXs actively seek excitement and thrive on the rush of adrenaline.

    2.Generally XXXXs are very emotional and spontaneous during interactions. They know how to find that special way of dealing with almost anybody. XXXXs are quite comfortable to talk to and are talented interlocutors. They often help people to extricate themselves from difficult situations. Their advice is normally based on ethical grounds. ENFps are often optimistic and it is not uncommon for them to transfer this optimism to others.

    XXXXs pay the least attention possible to details. This is often interpreted by others as superficiality. This peculiarity enables XXXXs to swallow lots of information without chewing it. After taking the cream from the surface of one sphere of interests XXXXs can become bored and start looking for different interests. They often change their interests. Wherever XXXXs go they have a characteristic ability to create a circle of friends and acquaintances and be at the centre of attention. They respect and preserve the opinions of the circle, taking an active part in defending and promoting them.

    3.XXXXs notice people who do not obey ethical norms. When among friends XXXXs always give their ethical evaluations of other peoples actions. Their quick wit enables them to reply effectively to people with sharp tongues. ISFjs enjoy to play jokes on people by telling them something seemingly serious with a straight face. Staying alone with a person for a long time can make ISFjs feel uncomfortable so does the presence of strangers in their homes.

    XXXXs like orderliness and cleanliness at home. They rarely tidy up but when they do they do a very thorough job. They are unlikely to go to sleep if they know that they have to finish some duties in their home. They can not simply rest without finding something to busy themselves with. XXXXs likely to judge the work by the quantity of energy spent and not the end result.

    4.XXXXs usually have a distant, far away look in their eyes and it often seems as though they are paying little attention to what is going on. During conversation XXXXs like to play with objects, like a pen for example, often accidentally breaking it. They may gesticulate when passionately telling a story.

    XXXXs are interested in and talk about everything that is new and unusual even if it is not in their main field of knowledge. It is as if they are magnetised by all brand new theories and are fascinated by all phenomena that can not be explained with logic or reason, for example: ESP, telekinesis and UFO's. They cannot logically explain their ideas as they are always intuitive and vague. Most people cannot fully comprehend their concepts, they simply believe or do not believe.

    The main peculiarity of XXXXs behaviour is an incredible absent-mindedness. They usually leave items where they used them and have a tendency to constantly lose smaller objects. XXXXs work place and personal belongings are often kept in disarray. They invariably forget what they have already done and what they need to do. However, they are quick and shrewd in day to day matters, taking advantage of every opportunity that arises. Because of this others may consider them to be crafty or shifty.

    5.When in confrontation, XXXXs quickly focus on their opponents weaknesses, usually destroying them with one perfectly placed phrase. If this opportunity does not manifest itself, they have the skills to provoke the reaction they desire. XXXXs are very slow to anger. And when they do become angered it is very difficult for them to calm down. They like games that require quick thinking and tactics and often win these games as they have great skill misleading and provoking their opponents into making bad moves.

    XXXXs are very tactically minded and know how to adapt to changing situations very quickly. They know how to arrange people according to their abilities and usefulness. They prefer to adopt an informal and unofficial leadership. They also do not like doing their own dirty work. XXXXs are hard working and extremely persevering people. The more obstacles they meet the more obvious these qualities become. They do not react well to unchallenging situations. They truly come alive in the face of adversity. ESTps are inclined to give ultimatums.

    6.As children XXXXs are very often obedient, docile, responsible and respectful. For this reason they are often used by adults as examples to other children. This will often lead them to take positions of responsibility while still at school. XXXXs adapt well to positions of power and are very dutiful. When in power they show good administrative and organisation skills. They demand the exact fulfilment of their orders and are uncompromising in these matters. They usually maintain strong discipline inside organisations. They like and respect authority and always obey subordination.

    XXXXs like to collect reference material, encyclopaedias and dictionaries. They will never admit that they do not know something within the field of their activity. When they buy new appliances they always read the manual before using them even if the operations are obvious. At home they regimented in an almost military fashion. Every item has it's own specific place and they look after and take care of all their things. XXXXs can become very irritated and angry if somebody changes or interrupts this specific order or treats their possessions improperly.

    7.When XXXXs speak publicly they habitually adopt a slow, monotone speech pattern. This may have a sleep inducing hypnotic effect on their audience. XXXXs are good at noticing contradictions in theories or opinions and can focus others attention to this. They are able to predict short term forthcoming events in both visual and associative forms. Through observation and their own experiences INTps can create a precise model of others behaviour allowing INTps to predict peoples next moves. They often amaze and interest people with this quality.

    XXXXs are very sceptical to others who are undertaking new beginnings. They are able to pour cold water on others burning enthusiasm. They try to keep others from being passionate as they consider strong emotions to be harmful. XXXXs also look after their health and can be very captious in these matters. For example, they may wash their hands more often than others do. They pay a lot attention to hygiene and sanitation.

    XXXXs usually work slowly, paying a lot of attention to detail. In their activities they show a strict logic, that can sometimes become very pedantic and scrupulous. XXXXs may check that all home appliances are off many times before leaving. (What? Ha ha!)

    8. XXXXs have got very characteristic movements. When walking they often look like they are in a hurry. In fact, XXXXs always seem to be in a hurry. They are always going somewhere or visiting someone. They often seem to be overloaded with work that is not so urgent. They do not like to be criticised on this point and can sometimes take offence.

    XXXXs are incredibly hospitable and are always trying to surprise their guests with something unusual. XXXXs work on the philosophy that guests should first be fed and then entertained. However they can sometimes be over the top with offers of food as they have difficulties judging when enough is enough.

    XXXXs pay good attention to health matters and the general well being of themselves and their family. For example, after visiting a doctor they always want an accurate diagnosis in order to decide the method of cure for themselves. When someone helps XXXXs with home matters they appreciate it very much. The fact that someone helps them is more important than the actual result.

    9.Although the first impression of XXXXs is that they are emotionless, when they become inspired during conversation an emotionality previously unseen begins to emerge. Their eyes start flashing with a fanatic light and their passion increases as the conversation progresses. However, they still try to maintain their self-control. XXXXs sustain conversations only if they find them interesting. They prefer to keep silent rather than give an opinion on a subject to which they are indifferent.

    XXXXs always give others a chance to say what they need to say. They consider that everyone has got talents and they try at least not to interfere. They do not refuse any proposals immediately, preferring to examine them first. XXXXs are very reserved and usually do not take the initiative in talking about their interests and private life. This can lead others to think that they have no private life at all.

    XXXXs usually have an interest that stays with them for a long time and are absolutely indifferent to what others say about it. They never endorse their position in life. XXXXs live in a world of their own conception. They simply ignore rules, concepts and directives that do not suit them. Most people do not understand XXXXs and try to keep away from them.


    Ok, I have to leave now.








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    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

  8. #48
    Junior Member look.to.the.sky's Avatar
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    First off, a difference that really matters between MBTI and Socionics is where the "qualities" are drawn from. In MBTI, you go from the dichotomies to define the type... So, for an ENFP, it's E+N+F+P=type, and you define this by stringing all those qualities together. When it comes to MBTI functions, they just further fit in, they don't completely define the type.

    With Socionics, you actually are defined by the information elements in the functions (Or just the functions to use MBTI vocab) and their position and interaction with one another creates the type description. Dichotomies don't explain the types, but they do easily group them together to show commonalities.

    Socionics.com isn't the best source for Socionics information. Try The Wikisocion instead. And lurk around on this forum: The 16 Types.
    pursuing my true self

  9. #49
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    So, for an ENFP, it's E+N+F+P=type, and you define this by stringing all those qualities together. When it comes to MBTI functions, they just further fit in, they don't completely define the type.
    Functions define the type in MBTI, how do they not? You're thinking bare basic MBTI. The functions also explain how the types function as a person, and it makes sense.

    I'm not dissing socionics, I love socionics. Just saying.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  10. #50
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    Socionics.com isn't the best source for Socionics information. Try The Wikisocion instead. And lurk around on this forum: The 16 Types.
    Ah, thank you.
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

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