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  1. #11
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    I'd like to point out that because J/P has a different definition in socionics, dual partners, in MBTI terms will have ALL 4 letters reversed.

    (Arguably, of course) There are several debates of what MBTI type corresponds to which socionics types. In socionics, J/P determines if a person's dominant(ego) function is a judging or perceiving function. This stands in contrast to the MBTI J/P in which it corresponds to which function receives the extraverted attitude. In the instance of extroverted types both systems will have the same function order because the dominant function is extroverted. In introverts, the auxiliary function is determined by the J/P preference in MBTI. In socionics, however, the J/P preference determines if the dominant function is a judging or perceiving function, not the auxiliary. As a result of all this, J/P is traditionally "flipped" in introverts between the two systems because of function order. (IE: INTP (MBTI) and INTj (socionics) have the same functions)

    In Socionics, all letters except for J/P are changed for duals.
    Therefore, MBTI "duals" would require ALL letters to change. (As one half of the dual would be introverted, thus requiring ONE of the J/P preferences to be changed)
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  2. #12
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    i am estj and my dual is infj. Totally logical !
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #13
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    any detailed interactions about INFPs and ESTPs ?
    I have found that on the web, there are many accounts of how one adores the other
    I N V I C T U S

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_Z View Post
    I'd like to point out that because J/P has a different definition in socionics, dual partners, in MBTI terms will have ALL 4 letters reversed.

    (Arguably, of course) There are several debates of what MBTI type corresponds to which socionics types. In socionics, J/P determines if a person's dominant(ego) function is a judging or perceiving function. This stands in contrast to the MBTI J/P in which it corresponds to which function receives the extraverted attitude. In the instance of extroverted types both systems will have the same function order because the dominant function is extroverted. In introverts, the auxiliary function is determined by the J/P preference in MBTI. In socionics, however, the J/P preference determines if the dominant function is a judging or perceiving function, not the auxiliary. As a result of all this, J/P is traditionally "flipped" in introverts between the two systems because of function order. (IE: INTP (MBTI) and INTj (socionics) have the same functions)

    In Socionics, all letters except for J/P are changed for duals.
    Therefore, MBTI "duals" would require ALL letters to change. (As one half of the dual would be introverted, thus requiring ONE of the J/P preferences to be changed)
    No socionics doesn't account for judging and perceiving. No. We have to keep cleaning the lake every time someone dumps trash into it. It's called rationality/irrationality. It's not the same thing, and socionics type codes look like MBTI for very little reason. There is no objective duality in MBTI. Forget that idea.

  5. #15
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    No socionics doesn't account for judging and perceiving. No. We have to keep cleaning the lake every time someone dumps trash into it. It's called rationality/irrationality. It's not the same thing, and socionics type codes look like MBTI for very little reason. There is no objective duality in MBTI. Forget that idea.
    While the dichotomy is usually known as rational/irrational, it can also be known as judging/perceiving. (Jung himself described judging functions as "rational" and perceiving functions as "irrational.") Of course, it should be kept in mind that the socionics and MBTI "judging" and "perceiving" do not mean the same thing in both contexts. While they may coincide in certain situations, they are inherently NOT the same thing.

    That being said, I do acknowledge that socionics and MBTI types shouldn't be equally transmuted. MBTI =/= socionics. Ergo, while they may have their similarities, MBTI concepts should not be directly applied to socionics per se. (and vice versa) However, the purpose of this thread is more of an experiment to test if the concept of duality can carry over to MBTI, if even in a rough form. The purpose of my post which you have quoted is to inform the readers of this thread of what their MBTI "dual" would be, provided it existed.
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  6. #16
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    Those who speak of judging and perceiving dichotomies speak of Jung, Keirsey, or Myers-Briggs. If you think socionics applies those terms you are mistaken.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    any detailed interactions about INFPs and ESTPs ?
    I have found that on the web, there are many accounts of how one adores the other
    Yes. My SO is an ESTP. (I've been thinking he was ESFP for a while, but he's actually ESTP.) We've had our share of rockiness in the relationship, but most of it has been a result of external stresses and certain seasons where we were in really difficult life situations.

    I do adore him. He makes my life so much better. I'm neurotic and emotional, and he's very stable and calm. I'm prone to depression and brooding, but he constantly makes me laugh and stop focusing on the negative stuff. He's really good at watching my back and making sure nobody steps on me, since I'm pretty permissive and easygoing. He's crazy and the life of the party, so when we go out, the pressure is off me (since I'm extremely introverted and detest being the center of attention.)

    I love to talk to him at the end of the day, whether I'm excited or sad or pissed off. He's good at understanding exactly how I feel, listening to me, coming up with solutions to problems, etc. Without him I sometimes think I'd be off the deep end.

    I sometimes get frustrated with the S vs. N thing, since sometimes he seems a little "ADD" to me and hates to sit still and discuss abstract concepts, which I love. However, I have other friends and the Internet for that. Or, for example, if we visit a concert together, I tend to experience it in a deep, personal, symbolic way, while he's just kind of like, "Cool. Fun. Let's do that again sometime." Kind of annoying. But he does recognize my need to be alone, to write, to work on my music, etc. and even if he doesn't fully get my mindset going into those things, he gives me ample room to do what I need to do.

    I usually come up with the nutty ideas, like, "Hey, let's get chickens!" and then he figures out how to actually get stuff done, like finding scrap wood and building a little coop. Without him, I'd just end up with a lot of nutty ideas and not much else.

    I think we've learned to work well together. I really feel like he protects me from the world -- not because I'm a girl, but just because of the way our personalities are.
    I-71%, N-80%, F-74%, P-96%

  8. #18
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    Those who speak of judging and perceiving dichotomies speak of Jung, Keirsey, or Myers-Briggs. If you think socionics applies those terms you are mistaken.
    The (Jungian, 1st tier) Socionics Dichotomies are as follows:
    Introversion/ Extraversion
    Sensing (or sensory)/ Intuition
    Ethics/ Logic
    Irrational/ Rational

    While those are the standard names for the dichotomies, Ethics/ Logic can also be known as Feeling/ Thinking, and Irrational/ Rational can be known Perceiving/ Judging. These less commonly heard aliases are occasionally used, especially when comparing or referencing Socionics with other systems such as Jung's and the Myers-Briggs.

    Naturally, Ethics/ Logic is referred to as Feeling/ Thinking more than Irrational/ Rational is to Perceiving/ Judging simply because Jung himself (argued to be a forefather of Socionics) called the functions Feeling and Thinking, while Judging/Perceiving is used in systems developed after Jung, notably MBTI.
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  9. #19
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    ...
    That sounds GREAT! I personally would love an ESTP of my own. Congrats on finding someone good for you!
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  10. #20
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    I didn't know it was supposed to be a good match. LOL. I've been chuckling about that all day. But yeah, I would gladly hope for you to find the same! It's pretty great.
    I-71%, N-80%, F-74%, P-96%

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