User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 32

  1. #11
    garbage
    Guest

    Default

    Never thought about it before, but it usually boils down to "stupid"/"dumb"; even unethical positions mostly just come across to me as "retarded" ideas. But then I also immediately try to figure out why I think that--whether my judgment is sound or not.

    I also know in my mind that the person isn't stupid, that they and I are the products of our respective environments, and I could also be completely wrong about just how stupid I think their behavior is.

  2. #12
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    When I think someone is an asshole, that usually isn't even a judgment it's just an observation, if you can understand what I mean. So yeah, I think what Eric is talking about is a pretty good indicator.
    Right, but against what criteria is that observation being made is my question. When I think of someone as boring, uninteresting or interesting, an asshole, etc; am I making judgments according to my impersonal subjective principles [Ti] or are those coming from personal subjective principles [Fi]. This is in terms of my temperament, so for others it may be a Te vs Fe thing and easier to decipher.



  3. #13
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5 sp/sx
    Posts
    2,334

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    seems about right....my ex, an istj was constantly saying...what an idiot...or jerk or whatever other name...to the guy who cut in front of him in traffic...or was taking too long to go...or anybody doing something other than what he wanted....it never made sense to me. my reaction was always...oh damn...they're in a hurry...haha...or....how funny they're all zoned out and didn't notice the light change...and then his snap jugdements would piss me off.
    Would that be P versus J there? The J makes a quick judgment based on what they observed, whereas the P sits back for a while with a more neutral kind of perspective. I tend to excuse peoples behavior in the same fashion, it's only when that same person keeps coming back and doing the same dumb thing again and again that I make any sort of judgment.

    When working out the T/F axis, I find that I'm often associating T with male, F with female, but more often than not, I seem to be right. Sometimes there's an obvious female T, one that seems less caring and more aggressive. But some of the F guys I know are still somewhat masculine, an ESFP absolutely embellishes in it, but you can see his F side when he debates things.
    5 3 9

  4. #14
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,027

    Default

    Kneejerk reactions don't materialize out of thin air. There has to be a larger context. The person has to be primed with past experiences. I was watching a movie one day. It was a horror movie. I was expect a really gorey violent scene, bloody, guts and screams. I was thinking I really don't want to watch what is coming next. It turned out to be one of the Scary movies--a spoof of the original horror. I was primed to expect the horror instead of the comedy.

  5. #15
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Right, but against what criteria is that observation being made is my question. When I think of someone as boring, uninteresting or interesting, an asshole, etc; am I making judgments according to my impersonal subjective principles [Ti] or are those coming from personal subjective principles [Fi]. This is in terms of my temperament, so for others it may be a Te vs Fe thing and easier to decipher.
    Well that's the whole point. Of course everything at the end of the day is subjective, even Te. The origin of any thought will have its roots, personally, in both T and F. And I guess the type of T or F depends on your preference, but the way it's manifested is what separates us.

    My impartiality is probably more rooted in Ne. So my judgments aren't really judgments, just observations. But your judgments are most likely analyses, etc... But like all things, it's almost impossible to separate the functions because we don't really know what processes what. All we can say for sure is how we express ourselves. And my answer is usually a resounding "N/A".

  6. #16
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,584

    Default

    Inconsistencies stand out to me quite a bit. I work for consistency in myself and my thinking, emotions, etc. I look for patterns in the way other people think and can get a little rattled when something is introduced that is completely unexpected. It often takes me back to square one to rebuild my sense of the person from scratch in case my original model was somehow warped to not account for the conflicting information. I tend to focus on the anomaly until I can make sense of it, or just file it away in the "I guess people don't make sense" drawer. What I might call a knee-jerk reaction is to point out inconsistencies in whatever language would have been part of the original pattern.

    When I encounter something negative, I don't usually think in terms of "dumb" or "bad person", but more "hmmm, where did that come from?" There are people I've known most of my life that I don't have solid conclusions about.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Here's a possible clue to F or T preference we should look at. In daily annoyances, including in our interaction here, how do you tend to judge people? Or what is the kneejerk judgment you make? "Stupid", "dumb", "silly", etc.? Or is it more along the lines of ethics? Like maybe "inappropriate", "bad person", etc. I'm not even sure of kneejerk F judgments. Maybe they don't even come out like that. Or maybe it comes across as questioning the value/worth of things (rather than the people who make them like T tends to go after)?
    As a primary Ji, I have realized that I constantly am making judgments (usually of the variety, "That made no sense" or "How stupid" or "What a jerk, that was entirely unfair of them" or "how short-sighted" or whatever). The deal though is that the judgment doesn't stick if the information changes; I don't hold onto positives or negatives, I am constantly updating both the short-term and long-term judgment.

    I also don't hold it against people. I might assess someone as stupid, but in the essence of fairness I will try to treat them and their ideas the same as I would treat someone else. I do all this sort of instinctively.

    I don't really go into the "moral" thing much unless the frame of reference is imposed by someone else -- usually a religious person who is judging the moral character of others and seems to be quite the hypocrite. Then I find myself thinking more "moral" terms like, "You're poison," "She's evil," or "Their heart is bad." Because I perceive that their intentions are self-centered rather than community/love-centered as they are pretending. But usually I notice I do not use that framework unless the other person imposes it first, and then I "react" to it.

    Like Toonia says, I am very aware of inconsistencies -- I am constantly triangulating data in my head and I notice immediately things that don't match or go together.

    With my being introverted, you'll usually not see my kneejerk reactions if I have one. They're all internalized, and they only get out if I'm doing it purposefully or if I'm very stressed.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahNounBlah View Post
    My most frequent kneejerk of other people is "boring." If it's boring, I don't care what else it is. That's the death sentence.

    I'll sometimes kneejerk that someone is an "asshole," but I like assholes when they're interesting.

    When I kneejerk my own behavior, however, it's usually "That was a stupid thing to do/say."
    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I think you're correct, the first reaction/judgment to any kind of information can be a good indicator of the T or F preference. The best way for me has been to consider the split as impersonal vs. personal comparisons to the self or the environment.

    However, not to spin this thread in a direction you didn't intend, there are statements like BlahBlah's that make me wonder where the judgments are coming from. Is "interesting" or "boring" or "asshole" a T or F judgment and how do you tell the difference?
    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahNounBlah View Post
    Still thinking about this, and my second most frequent judgment, after "boring" is "doesn't make sense." Third is definitely "inconsiderate."
    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I was like that when I was younger. But boring is fascinating to me now. I want to know why you are boring. Can you hear yourself speak, and if so, do you also bore yourself? That sort of thing.

    Yeah, my judgments tend to be impersonal to the highest degree (not "you are stupid", but "that thing you said was stupid"). Because I am usually so far removed from people mentally, it's rare for me to get offended. I just get curious. When I think someone is an asshole, that usually isn't even a judgment - it's just an observation, if you can understand what I mean. So yeah, I think what Eric is talking about is a pretty good indicator.
    It would make sense, that for ENTP's, somethigng like "boring" would come up first (especially when younger), as that's obviously coming from the Ne. It seems logic is next, as it develops, and then, the "inconsiderate" type judgments, as Fe is next. But between T and F, the T is coming first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    As a primary Ji, I have realized that I constantly am making judgments (usually of the variety, "That made no sense" or "How stupid" or "What a jerk, that was entirely unfair of them" or "how short-sighted" or whatever). The deal though is that the judgment doesn't stick if the information changes; I don't hold onto positives or negatives, I am constantly updating both the short-term and long-term judgment.

    I also don't hold it against people. I might assess someone as stupid, but in the essence of fairness I will try to treat them and their ideas the same as I would treat someone else. I do all this sort of instinctively.

    I don't really go into the "moral" thing much unless the frame of reference is imposed by someone else -- usually a religious person who is judging the moral character of others and seems to be quite the hypocrite. Then I find myself thinking more "moral" terms like, "You're poison," "She's evil," or "Their heart is bad." Because I perceive that their intentions are self-centered rather than community/love-centered as they are pretending. But usually I notice I do not use that framework unless the other person imposes it first, and then I "react" to it.

    Like Toonia says, I am very aware of inconsistencies -- I am constantly triangulating data in my head and I notice immediately things that don't match or go together.

    With my being introverted, you'll usually not see my kneejerk reactions if I have one. They're all internalized, and they only get out if I'm doing it purposefully or if I'm very stressed.
    All of that is so much like me, except what I have tended to do with religous hypocrites and others imposing morality, is hit them back with their own medicine (You've already seen at least one of my Christian doctrine treatises, as we were just discussing!)
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    4
    Posts
    384

    Default

    when I think of my kneejerk reactions I'm reminded of just now, posting, where I feel I just have to say something, I have something to say and I'll type it out, get it out of my system, then carry on like usual.

    there are other kinds of kneejerk reactions I do. the kind that have gotten me into the most trouble were between me and another person, I thought they said or felt or thought something against me, that I was this horrible entity or even a minor annoyance.

    I've felt people were boring or stupid in their thoughts and actions, but I don't take it personally if I don't think it's directed to me. I judge stupidity in terms of fairness and morality, and human rights. I do take these kinds of injustices personally. But I'm not going to express myself similarly to when I know a slight was intended for me.

    I feel I have a lot of common sense, maybe this is Te. I can bring out/highlight the obvious and this helps me decide when who and what I'm dealing with is moronic and lacking basic reasoning processes. But I sort of lump people together in this case. Very little Fe comes into play in this situation, just thinking (when I have this process I do use it to the best of my ability).

    My feeling directs my attention to what I deem important though. Never do I believe my thinking leads me to what's important. Intuition is my absolute, feeling is my ray, and thought is the medium. I threw intuition in there because I'm not sure what to say about it and kneejerk. I'd say my intuition couldn't be kneejerk in the least. It has nothing of substance. Maybe I have no intuition to speak of? Could be.

  10. #20
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    3h50
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,460

    Default

    T - "that". "That was silly/stupid/fun"
    F - "he/she". "He/she is silly/stupid/fun"

Similar Threads

  1. "As Slow As Possible" a concert piece by John Cage
    By Eilonwy in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-27-2012, 11:46 AM
  2. Box yourself in as many ways as possible
    By Such Irony in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-19-2011, 11:23 PM
  3. As Slow As Possible
    By Ivy in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-29-2008, 01:07 AM
  4. Type as many characters as possible in this film
    By MerkW in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-03-2007, 05:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO