User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 71

  1. #11
    Member Sachetan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    43

    Default

    I'm the only NT at my workplace where most of my colleagues are NFs. Mostly we have very harmonius relations and mutual respect in our communication. I think we can value our differences and that's helpful in the creative field since we both have loads of ideas.

    But I've also met some NFs in my line of work that have misunderstood me. Sometimes I've found that my "rational ways" have been demonized because of the straight-forward way I tackle problems. Those times I've felt that my professional opinions (very rational) have labeled me as a person. And I'm the one who likes to keep work and personal separate from each other. It's almost been like an ideology (NF) fighting against what's functional (NT).

    I think that I'm as sensitive person as any NF and very diplomatic but this rationalism can make me seem insensitive to some people. But an NT reaction (rational) doesn't mean that she's got no feelings. It's just that she makes decisions based on other things than that.

    I appreciate the fact that we have a balance in decision-making at my workplace because all the different points of views are represented. Mutual respect and understanding is what we need.
    Last edited by Sachetan; 07-18-2009 at 04:05 AM.

  2. #12
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    INTp
    Posts
    413

    Default

    As an INTP dating an INFJ (4+ years), communication was extremely easy and extremely hard. It was easy in that we both spoke the same language. Using analogies and stories to try to get the message across. It was extremely difficult because we would ask questions that was targeted at the other's less developed function.

    INTP - Ti Ne Si Fe
    INFJ - Ni Fe Ti Se

    We did battle it out using tools like MBTI, but in the end the miscommunication was solved by compassion. By this I mean that when we talk, we both tacitly agree to remove our own egos. This isn't always the case, but it works a lot better.

    To illustrate:
    ego driven communication
    INTP - It doesn't make any sense, why would you do anything like that in the first place?
    INFJ - This is how it should be done. Didn't you think of that?

    ego toned down.
    INTP - you know, it might be better if this were to happen. what do you think?
    INFJ - how do you feel about this?


    The difference is that the other person's reality was taken into account. At first, when we had our epic battles, we didn't understand each other's reality. How could we when we use our strengths to cope with the world? After some long walks on the beach, and impromptu road trips, we took the time to discuss things in our own view. When this failed, we would write letters to each other. (talking and writing uses different brain circuits)

    Now after studying MBTI and enneagram, we have a much better idea of where the other is generally coming from. Of course we fail at it sometimes, but the effort has made huge gains for us. I also find my communication different in that I'm delivering both the logic and emotional aspect of the idea I'm trying to communication. I used to just convey the logic and that was it.

    my definition of love is the understanding, validation and acceptance of the other person's reality. As an NT trying to determine what love is, this definition became the most helpful in dealing with NFs and everyone in general. Sometimes there wouldn't be enough time to establish a working level of love with other other person, but it generally works. Deflecting verbal attacks is a struggle for me as I try to understand, validate and accept the alternate reality.

    the NTs have the T function in the first two and the F in the last two. The opposite is true for the NFs. The communication is delivered through our strongest functions and it lands on their weakest functions.

    It's like NTs in 110 volt land, and NFs in 220 volt land. They send each other the goods but the plug never fits wall until an adapter is used. So instead of the receiver constantly looking for the adapter, I find it always helpful to send an adapter with my item. It's just gracious.

    When the topic becomes heavy emotions, I have to demand space and time, because I cannot handle a lot of it. I just can't sit through a tear jerking soap drama for the full episode. Just as she goes KO in 3 mins when she read one of my non-fiction books.

    So in general, when communicating, be loving and send an adapter with it.

  3. #13
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    infp
    Posts
    2,726

    Default

    Amargith and jennifer have both pretty much covered anything I would have liked to add.

    I was the one who made it clear that I felt you were having a denied emotional response, since I still can't wrap my head around the need for an ENTP to argue so passionately for something that he/she doesn't actually care about all that much, whereas as an ENFP that dislikes confrontation for the sake of confrontation, I wouldn't argue passionately for a topic that meant nothing to me.

    I've never played devils advocate, I assume the it's a real advocate argueing back with me, because not believing in ones own words doesn't make any sense to me.

    I felt like jennifer said, that there was lot of NT logical arrogance dismissing my feelings, which then became my own arrogance of feelings.

    I also agree with amar, often because I feel pressured to accept logic in a not very polite or helpful way, I will rebel instantly, but then go off and process my emotions, and then process the logic I have been handed and realise that actually yes, that NT was right, but did they have to go about it in that way and make me feel so stupid in the process?
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  4. #14
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,660

    Default

    It would also be interesting to compare the NTP/NFP dynamic to the NTP/NFJ dynamic and vice versa, as it would appear those NFs and NTs, though they still have their problems, are able to give each other the benefit of the doubt much easier because of similarities in the way they communicate, despite their difference in focus (or that's at least how I've observed it).

    I find it way easier to reason with an NTJ than with an NTP, as somehow the NTJ does get what I'm getting at even if he disagrees with where my priorities lie.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  5. #15
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    INTp
    Posts
    413

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    It would also be interesting to compare the NTP/NFP dynamic to the NTP/NFJ dynamic and vice versa, as it would appear those NFs and NTs, though they still have their problems, are able to give each other the benefit of the doubt much easier because of similarities in the way they communicate, despite their difference in focus (or that's at least how I've observed it).

    I find it way easier to reason with an NTJ than with an NTP, as somehow the NTJ does get what I'm getting at even if he disagrees with where my priorities lie.
    It's kinda simple actually

    All TP/FJ have the Ti/Fe combo
    All TJ/FP have the Te/Fi combo.

  6. #16
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by durentu View Post
    It's kinda simple actually

    All TP/FJ have the Ti/Fe combo
    All TJ/FP have the Te/Fi combo.

    Hehe, yeah I did already come to the same conclusion as well, but I'm wondering if there's some way we can learn from each other as bridge that gap with those that don't naturally have the same functions. Is there anyway to simulate this and how do you go about it concretely?
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  7. #17
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_Z View Post
    I honestly can't relate to the OP. Of all the NFs I've met and argued with, the only one to say they knew my feelings better than I did was my therapist. (INFJ)
    Yes, that happens when someone has a significant amount of deep and very personal information on precisely what is motivating your most fundamental intentions.

    If I'd shared such a high degree of extremely private information with an NF as in the case of a patient-therapist relationship, I would buy the idea that s/he might know what I'm feeling better than I do.

    Be that as it may, however, this is an internet forum with a bunch of strangers I've never even met in person or observed any body language or tone of voice from...and yet somehow they know my feelings better than I do?

    Normally here my Fi actually jumps in--"How self-righteous!" "How arrogant!"

    Ne/Ni perceives this as a threat to its personal freedom to describe and express itself; hence, the NT may now become legitimately upset even if he was not upset in the initial conflict. It is a fundamentally ridiculous claim to say that interacting with someone purely through text on an internet forum is enough information to make any serious psychiatric assessment on his emotional state to the degree that you might have greater insight into his own emotions than he does.

    Now, if someone actually explains his deepest personal motivations to you in detail, that's different. But I find that Ne likes to jump to possible explanations a lot, and when combined with Fi (which MUST consider itself to be acting ethically at all times), results in some pretty specious feeling-based explanations for the behaviors of others.

    For an exaggerated case to prove my point, see the NFP-heavy far social left that honestly believes that 100% of people who oppose gay marriage are horrible, cruel bigots who hate them personally. Fi is out of control again--when used in excess, it will combine with Ne to invent all kinds of horrible motivations on the part of its enemies, always blaming others because Ji has difficulty accepting that its internal assessment could be inaccurate.

    It's never the INFP's fault! (This is tongue-in-cheek and no offense is intended.) See??

    Whew. That was a long one.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #18
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    135 so/sp
    Posts
    8,697

    Default

    As a expressed INTJ I give my 2 cents.


    In my entire life I haven't daveloped a deeper connection with an F. Trith to be told same works for Ts as well. But it is much easier to get along with them for me.


    I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that I intimidate feelers on a regular basis. This is probably because they have a natural tendency to look into peoples emotions. But this does not work in my case. Since I am difficult to read. (at least from their perspective ). There were even times when F women asked me "Do you even feel anything ?"


    The main problem in communication is that to me everything can be debated and should be debated. I am not a person that has many values. Actually most of my positions are just positions that make most sense at the time and if I can find better way/fact I will make a replacement.

    What creates huge communication problems. One of the main problems can be that in conversation about something an NF is focused on my emotions and wants to know why I am into this or that so much. On the other hand they mostly ignore the main side of me which is my thinking. Which means that for the most part they tend to overlook a part that is completly dominant in me. Instead they focus on that small underdeveloped emotional part.


    But since I don't have much values, for me it is normal to throw stuff and ideas away since they don't make much sense anymore. But I can't shake the impression that NF can suffer just by watching this. Perhaps they can even think that I am having a nervous brakedown. While I am just following logic.


    On the other hand my lack of any real/deep compassion is probably intimidating as well. Few years ago my grandmother feel but her description of the even was exaggerated (from the position of physical laws) so I gave her and my sincer opinion that she has a capital logical hole in here story.
    So everybody accused me that I am insenstive.
    This is just a simple example but it certanly is not the only one.


    So if you want to become closer to NTs or people like me I suggest that you don't take anything personally and you are free to be blunt as much as like when you are dealing with me.

  9. #19
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by durentu View Post
    It's kinda simple actually

    All TP/FJ have the Ti/Fe combo
    All TJ/FP have the Te/Fi combo.
    Yes. I actually find this makes more of a difference than raw temperament.

    For instance, I have more communication difficulties with most INFPs than I do with INTPs or INTJs (I have to admit, this is probably because it's more possible to gain an understanding of logic you don't agree with than feelings you don't agree with). I get along with other NFJs and ENFPs well enough.

    I have to admit, though an NTs emotional processing idiosyncrasies can be a handful at times, it's usually not an issue if we keep the topic at the abstract level and avoid making judgments, which I like to do. Generally, sharing N-dominance or one out of the Ti/Fe or Ni/Se axises is a much better predictor of whether I can get along with someone.

  10. #20
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,660

    Default

    Well, experience teaches that it is possible after asking enough questions and verification and especially so if you've frequently talked to the person as well, SW. But I do agree, that a stranger, out of the blue, and in public, not in private, is way harder to get right.

    And again, I have to ask that you mirror this back to yourself and acknowledge that you do the same when assuming things about Fs and their 'logical motivation'. Plz don't put words in our mouths and believe us when we say that you misunterpreted our words or we didn't formulate what we meant correctly and keep asking for verification till you get a positive reply that yes, this was what we meant.

    It's pretty much the same system as we should use for understanding someone's feelings.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

Similar Threads

  1. [NT] NTs on NTs
    By MacGuffin in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 139
    Last Post: 09-06-2012, 12:38 AM
  2. Question about NT/NF/SP/SJ
    By pure_mercury in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 09-09-2009, 09:49 PM
  3. [MBTItm] NT-NF pairing
    By entropie in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 04-13-2009, 07:52 PM
  4. [MBTItm] NTs/NFs on SJs
    By Giggly in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 03-05-2009, 04:13 PM
  5. [NT] Berens' comments on NTs and conflict
    By rivercrow in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 07-13-2007, 05:05 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO