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Are you wary of Fe?

LadyJaye

Scream down the boulevard
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
2,062
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Well in that case...

these questions are a wee, just a little tiny bit, disingenuous.

Tiny bit.

Liddle.

Really small.


.



How come?


No, apparently you're incapable of comprehending or answering straight forward and easily understood questions.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
(I seem to be doing pretty well at killing threads lately, so lets see what I can do with this one.)

Fe is the function that lets other people know that you care about them. In my personal experience it must be the most well intentioned function of them all. Usually my "problems" with Fe comes from Te users trying to mimic Fe. In particular female ExTJ's grow up in the social world that females live in, so they learn all of the Fe conventions, but they have no values underneath that give meaning to the conventions. So for female Te users the conventions are just ways to manipulate people and gain status rather than ways to communicate their values to other people.

Also both Fe and Te are oriented toward group dynamics, but

Te will often say, "Our group is special. That is why you are not included."
While Fe will say, "Our group is special. That is why I want you to be included."

Really most problems in the social world seem to come from Te imitators rather than Fe users. That's just my experience anyway.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
^^ There's also a problem when a Fe dominant goes "our group is special. I want you to act more like this because you're part of our special group" - needless to say, can be very annoying
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
No, apparently you're incapable of comprehending or answering straight forward and easily understood questions.

Oh, please.

I seem to recall a type description somewhere. It mentioned mediocre people skills, usually deployed for unremarkable purposes, social graces mostly.

Which doesn't really account for the raw hunger of an Fe Dom, but hey, puppies are cute.


So, yep, it is fear.

And illegitimate?
 

ladyinspring

New member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
76
MBTI Type
INFP
Fe is the function that lets other people know that you care about them.

That is a nice definition, although Fe is no more well-intentioned than any other. At it's core it is the function of emotional expression and reading the emotional expressions of others.

I will admit that I am heavily biased against it if it is being used by ESTPs. It always comes across as false, mean, or very manipulative to me. Thankfully I now realize that a lot of my reaction is type-based and says nothing about the character of the other person or the nature of ESTPs or extraverted feeling, just my reaction to them. My reaction is saying something about me and not about them, I know that. For me the most useful explanation is the one offered by Socionics.
 

sculpting

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
Okay I have another scenario

A long tern friend-an ISFJ sits in my office and starts talking about how she will need to get transfusions of IV meds to treat her rhumatoid arthritus. She always talks about this and then pauses waiting for me to say something....

However her case is very, very mild, and her pain very, very mild.

From my perspective I would not share this info with others as I would feel like I was seeking self pity. I feel like I have to deal with these things myself and not share. Thus when she does this I feel annoyed as I feel like she is looking for attention. In light of the Fe/Fi, I think I am perceiving her intentions incorrectly.

What is she looking for me to say and why is she telling me without feeling like an attention whore when she does this?

Thanks happy Fe's!!
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
Okay I have another scenario

A long tern friend-an ISFJ sits in my office and starts talking about how she will need to get transfusions of IV meds to treat her rhumatoid arthritus. She always talks about this and then pauses waiting for me to say something....

However her case is very, very mild, and her pain very, very mild.

How can you judge this? You aren't inside her skin to feel what it feels like for her.


What is she looking for me to say and why is she telling me without feeling like an attention whore when she does this?

Thanks happy Fe's!!

I am not Fe but I do experience chronic illness and when I tell people around me that I am not feeling well, I am looking for them to understand me, why I might be quiet or slow or unable to do something, I am afraid of not measuring up, letting someone's expectations down...but rarely do I get true understanding. Mostly I get a load of heavy sympathy at first and then serious compassion fatigue later.

BTW, if she's a long-term "friend" what does it matter if she's feeling blue or scared and wants some attention? RA can be hell.
 
G

garbage

Guest
(I seem to be doing pretty well at killing threads lately, so lets see what I can do with this one.)

Fe is the function that lets other people know that you care about them.

I'm hesitant to agree. It seems that if one person "speaks Fe" and another does not, then the perception will be that the other doesn't care.

I'm in a situation right now where an unhealthy Fe-dominant is seemingly trying to measure our friendship by the number of favors he can get me to do. Since I see through what he's trying to do, I simply refuse to play.

He also always seems miffed by the fact that I really don't ask him for any favors--that there's nothing he really can do for me.

It's how he connects to people, but it's not how I do.
 

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,067
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm hesitant to agree. It seems that if one person "speaks Fe" and another does not, then the perception will be that the other doesn't care.

I agreed because regardless of Fe responding "well" to another person or not, this is still caring. Fe is never detached.
 
G

garbage

Guest
I agreed because regardless of Fe responding "well" to another person or not, this is still caring. Fe is never detached.

What I mean is that, if I don't treat him in the same way, he thinks that I don't care.

Perhaps, in some of us, a "mild" Fe is the vehicle that provokes us to give advice when needed, but we don't have the level of Fe that would cause us to fully involve ourselves in others' lives.

Unfortunately, when dealing with others, it seems that an agreement on these sorts of expectations is all too important.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
Okay I have another scenario

A long tern friend-an ISFJ sits in my office and starts talking about how she will need to get transfusions of IV meds to treat her rhumatoid arthritus. She always talks about this and then pauses waiting for me to say something....

However her case is very, very mild, and her pain very, very mild.

From my perspective I would not share this info with others as I would feel like I was seeking self pity. I feel like I have to deal with these things myself and not share. Thus when she does this I feel annoyed as I feel like she is looking for attention. In light of the Fe/Fi, I think I am perceiving her intentions incorrectly.

What is she looking for me to say and why is she telling me without feeling like an attention whore when she does this?

Thanks happy Fe's!!

"Wow, I'm sorry to hear about that"
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
Okay I have another scenario

A long tern friend-an ISFJ sits in my office and starts talking about how she will need to get transfusions of IV meds to treat her rhumatoid arthritus. She always talks about this and then pauses waiting for me to say something....

However her case is very, very mild, and her pain very, very mild.

From my perspective I would not share this info with others as I would feel like I was seeking self pity. I feel like I have to deal with these things myself and not share. Thus when she does this I feel annoyed as I feel like she is looking for attention. In light of the Fe/Fi, I think I am perceiving her intentions incorrectly.

What is she looking for me to say and why is she telling me without feeling like an attention whore when she does this?

Thanks happy Fe's!!

I'm not quite sure what to do with this, I have known people (non-specified type) who have a tendency to do what your friend does.

In this matter I would try to find a pattern of how it typically goes down. You can't argue with medical facts and the pain they cause; you're not in her body and can only imagine the physical and psychological effects of her condition. What I would do is watch how receptive she is towards other people doing the same thing she does to get a feel of how genuine she is.

If she meets others' conversation with a genuine attempt to understand, to commiserate, to come up with solutions, to listen, all that good stuff, then I wouldn't necessarily view when she does the same thing to me as attention seeking. If she consistently fails to do those balancing behaviors then I'd take your POV and think she's just attention seeking and looking for pity.

Other things to consider:
  • She feels comfortable saying this to you, even if she doesn't say it to others
  • Are you her supervisor? She could be saying this to alert you to the same things heart mentioned (slowness in speech and thought, feeling tired during the day, which may lead to lessened productivity)
  • She may just be more detailed in her explanations and what you view as extraneous information may be thoroughness in explanation to her
  • t be her way of sharing with you

I don't know if these things just complicate your situation even more, but you have more firsthand interaction with her than any of us. I'd go into observatory mode right now and see how she is with others to see if this is normal for her or abnormal.

Heart's explanation is also something to consider as well.
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
Just wanted to add: She could also be scared of the IV treatments (for whatever reason) or super stressed by their expense and she's just nervously chattering about it. It's not necessarily about wanting to attention whore.
 

Udog

Seriously Delirious
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
5,290
MBTI Type
INfp
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
It's interesting to see how the answers contrast.

Ne-Monster (Fi):
Focuses on how the behavior makes her personally feel. She assumes she correctly empathizes (which she might! we lack all the info), and then figures out what she would do in her friend's shoes. Since her behavior doesn't match her friend's, she grows annoyed.

Heart (Fi):
Having experienced similar problems, immediately empathizes with the ISFJ friend as she's been through something similar. She too may or may not be correct. Knowing what her own needs were, and what others did that helped and hurt her, constructs a course of action that she views as helpful.

Proteanmix (Fe):
Pays attention to what the person is expressing, but remains unsure of what the motivations are. Avoids making assumptions, and instead develops a test that will help her better interpret the situation. This is what some people can see as manipulative, because she's putting the friend in a situation where the ISFJ can return the favor or do nothing. Based on that, she will have the answer she seeks, and react accordingly.

Synarch and onemoretime (Tert Fe):
Simple. When a person complains, they seek sympathy, so give it to them. (There's no need or reason to see deeper into it at this point.)
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
Just wanted to add: She could also be scared of the IV treatments (for whatever reason) or super stressed by their expense and she's just nervously chattering about it. It's not necessarily about wanting to attention whore.

True. Good to remember.
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
Synarch and onemoretime (Tert Fe):
Simple. When a person complains, they seek sympathy, so give it to them. (There's no need or reason to see deeper into it at this point.)

Hah. Exactly.

I think my application of feeling makes the most sense to me because it is instrumental.

I can recognize the expressed need and supply the healing salve of sympathy without presuming to UNDERSTAND (because I can't) and without joining the person in their misery, which might make them feel as if they are putting something on me and therefore more reluctant to express their pain. I can bear their miseries with little effect to myself, which I have found can actually be comforting to people in need. They can feel comfortable complaining to me without worrying that they are adding to my burden and without feeling that they might owe me something if I empathize too closely.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
It's interesting to see how the answers contrast.

Ne-Monster (Fi):
Focuses on how the behavior makes her personally feel. She assumes she correctly empathizes (which she might! we lack all the info), and then figures out what she would do in her friend's shoes. Since her behavior doesn't match her friend's, she grows annoyed.

Heart (Fi):
Having experienced similar problems, immediately empathizes with the ISFJ friend as she's been through something similar. She too may or may not be correct. Knowing what her own needs were, and what others did that helped and hurt her, constructs a course of action that she views as helpful.

Proteanmix (Fe):
Pays attention to what the person is expressing, but remains unsure of what the motivations are. Avoids making assumptions, and instead develops a test that will help her better interpret the situation. This is what some people can see as manipulative, because she's putting the friend in a situation where the ISFJ can return the favor or do nothing. Based on that, she will have the answer she seeks, and react accordingly.

Synarch and onemoretime (Tert Fe):
Simple. When a person complains, they seek sympathy, so give it to them. (There's no need or reason to see deeper into it at this point.)

Wow, well when you break it down like that, you're right.

God us help us, we'll never figure each other out if this kind of thing is happening all the time.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
Synarch and onemoretime (Tert Fe):
Simple. When a person complains, they seek sympathy, so give it to them. (There's no need or reason to see deeper into it at this point.)

True (a lot of this is social conditioning), but to a point. If they keep complaining and foisting their misfortune upon me, eventually I'll get to where I'll just go ahead and say "I understand that it sucks, but is there something you want me to do about it? If not, quit complaining."

I realize this is not very sympathetic, but there it is.
 
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