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Are you wary of Fe?

Udog

Seriously Delirious
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
5,290
MBTI Type
INfp
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Yeah, that's interesting. I would likely interpret that as "well, I don't find kids that interesting, either, but I don't begrudge them for that. Guess that person really doesn't like kids. Still, nice to know someone who isn't obsessed with them all the time", never knowing that you actually were fond of kids.

Yup, and you would be justified for doing that. However, in the past, I would secretly want to be understood, and then feel hurt because you didn't see through my facade.

I'm not proud of any of that though. I deserved to be misunderstood.

To be fair, all types are criticized badly. You notice the INFP stuff because that's your type, but I never noticed it. Either way, you're not alone. :hug:

Wait, isn't ENTP the type that just tried to resurrect the ENTP hate thread and failed?
 

mortabunt

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
963
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type
Enneagram
5
I'm scared shitless of my Fe. It always complicates things, and jenocyde, wtf are you doing? Coudl this be? An ENTP's soft side? *gasp*!
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
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5,950
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N/A
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N/A
To be fair, all types are criticized badly. You notice the INFP stuff because that's your type, but I never noticed it. Either way, you're not alone. :hug:

True, true - we all have our pros and cons!
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
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4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Perhaps in the same way I'd assume someone giving me a card on my birthday isn't creating some kind of guilt trip or forcing empty social ritual upon me.

I never even thought to consider a birthday card as being manipulative. Maybe because I don't expect people to manipulate me. Actually, it's pretty pointless to try because I can tell. You may be able to lie to me outright though. Why be so distrusting of people at any rate? What abyss will a card cast one into after all?

If you're told to put on a necktie for work and you refuse on "personal" grounds, you should take it as a sign that you're more insubstantial than you thought. If putting on a tie makes you evaporate, then just give up now.

I believe she does this because she's not comfortable being in a leadership position, doesn't like to delegate work, but also realizes she can't do the work by herself, but is uncomfortable outright telling someone what to do. She is not a very direct person at all, but hints and insinuates at things she wants done. For the most part, I catch on to her insinuations but she often uses these same tactics when she's upset or in a foul mood.

So you're feeling the passive-aggressive tactic here?

So she'll say things like "I'm doing the work of 7 people," and depending on how I feel like responding I'll be silent and wait for her to tell me what she wants to do or say "OK, I'll do XYZ." Or she'll give me a project to do, tell me to do it how I want to do it, and if one piece of the project entails emailing a specific agency with a certain request I'll go to her and ask her is there anything she'd like me to emphasis in the communication. She'll say no no do it the way you like, I send the email, and then she'll send me back a critique of everything I should've said that I didn't. This has happened so many times I can't even count them.

That would make me crazy. I had a foreman like that. He'd tell us to get on our projects and then come by and shut them down for NO apparent reason. It was very defeating.

Would you say this is Fi behaving badly? Is this behavior that supersedes function and type? Because we certainly don't get very much of this on the forum, it's only Fe who gets pinned with this scarlet letter.

The misconception is that Fi is more "reasonable", or it's about "bad experience" therapy. Many Fe users on the board, including myself, have borne it patiently, and don't deserve the bashing. I don't abide that sort of thing IRL and I'm stunned that I'm so patient with it here. I still don't entirely "get" the whole centrality around Fe being "social" order. I'm constantly missing cues (while catching others) yet my Fi sister, the fish jump into her boat and I cast my line right into a tree.

I can read bad people and liars very well IRL, and I can never explain why I can see through them much to my frustration.


Also, I find that exchanging gifts and that sort of thing is easier with Fe users because it's less personal. When I give them gifts, they are more easily able to find meaning in the mere act of giving, whereas the few Fi users I've encountered have placed more emphasis on the meaning behind my choice of gift. And TBH, even though I kind of admire the idea of personalizing all of my gifts to the individuals that are close to me, doing so would exhaust me beyond belief. Even if I undertook such a project, I'd probably talk myself out of doing it because it's difficult and embarrassingly sentimental. And I'd probably get it wrong (i.e., I'd not really know what to give them because I don't hold on to emotional keepsakes). With Fe users, I don't have to worry as much. They'd be pleased even if they knew that I'd got everyone the same thing. And they are, in my experience, much more prone to being pleased with practical gifts than dominant Fi users (well, maybe only INFP).

Interesting angle, Orangey. :)

Do Fi users need to show up to the pillaging uh, 'competetion'? Perhaps bearing vials of our own blood to be awarded later?

I've had 8 vials drawn in the last three days. I'm good!


I did not realize how 'hot' Fe discussion is here. I experienced some very positive Fe usage in a discussion last night, too. In conversation, I like to avoid situations where a new topic or development comes up and makes some people uncomfortable, or is deemed inappropriate. My worry is, that a Fe-user may unintentionally encourage someone to volunteer something that is not quite appropriate for the current conversation, as if the Fe-user is surprised by the result of their Fe.

Ok, again this sounds like an unrealized fear or paranoia. There's no basis in fact that an Fe user is going to steal your soul. Ask yourself: What makes them so unreasonably powerful in your mind? What makes you so easy to subjugate? The implication is that you can't defend yourself? Why do you need to defend yourself? These questions are directed outward, not specifically at Lamp.


If it's ridiculous then you can see your way out.

Agreed. People are getting fired up and there's a reason for it, so being dismissive is counter-intuitive to the resolution.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
The misconception is that Fi is more "reasonable", or it's about "bad experience" therapy. Many Fe users on the board, including myself, have borne it patiently, and don't deserve the bashing. I don't abide that sort of thing IRL and I'm stunned that I'm so patient with it here. I still don't entirely "get" the whole centrality around Fe being "social" order. I'm constantly missing cues (while catching others) yet my Fi sister, the fish jump into her boat and I cast my line right into a tree.

I can read bad people and liars very well IRL, and I can never explain why I can see through them much to my frustration.
@ bold: Even though it was socially inappropriate, I was one of the kid in class that made a lot of sexual innuendoes (that was just the nature of the class). That probably was not the best example but I don't think Fe users are all about social appropriateness. It's not like they are tied to it. I am with you,Pink. I always feel like I can see through people facades. It can be draining.
 

Udog

Seriously Delirious
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
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INfp
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sp/sx
Social appropriateness is more the domain of Si. Social effectiveness tends to be Fe... but what areas the person wants to be effective in is highly personal. Hence it being an "F" function!
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
So the Fe/Si or the Si/Fe combo must be like the double whammy. That might be why I clash with SFJs in real life because I don't always think and care about the social appropriateness of everything. EDIT: I didn't mean it come off as bashing against SFJs. :doh:
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
Ok, again this sounds like an unrealized fear or paranoia. There's no basis in fact that an Fe user is going to steal your soul. Ask yourself: What makes them so unreasonably powerful in your mind? What makes you so easy to subjugate? The implication is that you can't defend yourself? Why do you need to defend yourself? These questions are directed outward, not specifically at Lamp.

Well in that case...

these questions are a wee, just a little tiny bit, disingenuous.

Tiny bit.

Liddle.

Really small.


.



How come?
 

Lightyear

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
899
So the Fe/Si or the Si/Fe combo must be like the double whammy. That might be why I clash with SFJs in real life because I don't always think and care about the social appropriateness of everything. EDIT: I didn't mean it come off as bashing against SFJs. :doh:

My thought too. I think Ni+Fe is a very different story than Si+Fe. (I too am not trying to bash SFJs, so please don't take that the wrong way.)

I personally really don't get the whole thing about us Fe users supposedly being tied to social norms, I am not, I love it and admire it when people push the boundaries of what is seen as socially acceptable (as long as they are not just a rebel without a cause and try to be shocking only for the sake of being shocking) I think my Ni has a lot to do with that, for example I can smell fakenness and insincerity a mile away and I hate them and I have no intention of holding up social structures that are hollow and have lost their originial meaning. That would go against my very being.

So I really don't know where people get the idea from that we Fe users are so set in our ways when it comes to social norms. Yes we try to make everyone get along with each other but we are not stupid or lemmings/slaves of our Fe.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
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3h50
My thought too. I think Ni+Fe is a very different story than Si+Fe. (I too am not trying to bash SFJs, so please don't take that the wrong way.)

I personally really don't get the whole thing about us Fe users supposedly being tied to social norms, I am not, I love it and admire it when people push the boundaries of what is seen as socially acceptable (as long as they are not just a rebel without a cause and try to be shocking only for the sake of being shocking) I think my Ni has a lot to do with that, for example I can smell fakenness and insincerity a mile away and I hate them and I have no intention of holding up social structures that are hollow and have lost their originial meaning. That would go against my very being.

So I really don't know where people get the idea from that we Fe users are so set in our ways when it comes to social norms. Yes we try to make everyone get along with each other but we are not stupid or lemmings/slaves of our Fe.

I don't think it's social norms per se, as much as it is making sure that others feel validated and respected through one's own actions. Many, though not all, social norms are representative of this desire. The social norms that say "I think you're an important person" are the ones that Fe tries to uphold, as opposed to the ones that seem to be there for their own sake.
 

Quinlan

Intriguing....
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
3,004
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ISFP
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9w1
I like Fe people a lot, what would I do without them? There is something admirable about someone who can be "out there", connecting with others, and wearing their heart on their sleeves. I do at times wish I could reciprocate the kind of feeling they give.

I fear I would be a hermit without them.
 

Lightyear

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
899
I don't think it's social norms per se, as much as it is making sure that others feel validated and respected through one's own actions. Many, though not all, social norms are representative of this desire. The social norms that say "I think you're an important person" are the ones that Fe tries to uphold, as opposed to the ones that seem to be there for their own sake.

So would you say Si is the function that would hold up the social norms that seem to be there for their own sake? (That thought just popped into my head.)
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
So would you say Si is the function that would hold up the social norms that seem to be there for their own sake? (That thought just popped into my head.)
I think that's what Udog was trying to say in the post above my other post. :)
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
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4,455
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3h50
So would you say Si is the function that would hold up the social norms that seem to be there for their own sake? (That thought just popped into my head.)

Yep. It was fun when my inferior Si (i.e. how conservative I was when younger) started to get the beatdown from the auxiliary Ti about how stupid half these institutions were, and how they made no sense whatsoever. Right now, the tertiary Fe is starting to speak up, letting me know that yes, they may be stupid, but they make others comfortable, and you're pissing everyone off by being a constant overt iconoclast.

Yes, typology does work pretty well in describing my personality, why do you ask? :D
 

Lightyear

New member
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Messages
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I think that's what Udog was trying to say in the post above my other post. :)

Ah yes. :)

Yep. It was fun when my inferior Si (i.e. how conservative I was when younger) started to get the beatdown from the auxiliary Ti about how stupid half these institutions were, and how they made no sense whatsoever. Right now, the tertiary Fe is starting to speak up, letting me know that yes, they may be stupid, but they make others comfortable, and you're pissing everyone off by being a constant overt iconoclast.

Same here. Fe makes me overlook a lot of "stupidity", if certain rules make somebody else feel good why should I desperatly try to dissect and destroy them, instead I will do my best to understand how a person functions and then use the rules/ways of doing things that are important to them as a channel to approach them. Instead of destroying their mindset I will try to navigate my way through it so that I can reach them. I guess that is what cultural sensitivity is all about.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
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Messages
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Same here. Fe makes me overlook a lot of "stupidity", if certain rules make somebody else feel good why should I desperatly try to dissect and destroy them, instead I will do my best to understand how a person functions and then use the rules/ways of doing things that are important to them as a channel to approach them. Instead of destroying their mindset I will try to navigate my way through it so that I can reach them. I guess that is what cultural sensitivity is all about.

You are way too nice. You're "trying to reach them" while I'm "trying to use their arguments against them", "trying to put up with them", or when magnanimous, "trying to understand how they are, so I can make things go more smoothly in the future". I guess that's the primary/tertiary split.

That's not a bad thing, either. :)
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
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May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
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6w7
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So would you say Si is the function that would hold up the social norms that seem to be there for their own sake? (That thought just popped into my head.)

Hmm, I don't know, because Si is INFPs tertiary function. I will say, though, that I have a great deal of respect for history, and though I don't like the way social norms were more enforced in the past, I do tend to romanticize the orderliness of the Modern Era (early 20th century). I also tend to be made to feel "safe" by things that remind me of my childhood, particularly my very early childhood.

I have an INFJ friend. She and I are both liberals, and care about similar things. However, I have noticed that she is more into "politically correct" behavior on a much deeper level than I am. And despite the fact that she has crappy moods like everyone else, she tends to come across as very nice and nurturing. She's great. But I'm just saying - she does seem to be upholding social norms in her own way, more than I actively do. I get really adamant about certain social norms, but not as broadly. I'm more likely to have certain "issues" that I feel strongly about.
 
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