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  1. #221
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamp View Post
    If I am understanding it correctly, Fe is pretty interesting because it is both sincere but also aimed at indirectly encouraging an individual to act a certain way. Seems like Fe, for example, alters my mood to make me more or less likely to do something. So instead of a friend saying "yes, I think you should do this", that friend would instead make me feel comfortable about doing something.

    I think what I am saying is that I do not notice another's Fe modifying my actions until I do something, whereas with a direct suggestion I seem to realize immediately that I am considering acting outside of my 'comfort zone'.
    People with dominant Fe make me nervous because--in my experience--they tend to be fairly able manipulators. Even those who think theyre using their powers for "good". Whenever I meet one I always get that twinge that some sort of game is being played, and any sort of attempt to react to it directly is very easily misconstrued as being unnecessarily combative. I'm sure theyre capable of good for someone, somewhere, but they conduct business in a way that I strongly dislike.

  2. #222
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-up Rex View Post
    People with dominant Fe make me nervous because--in my experience--they tend to be fairly able manipulators. Even those who think theyre using their powers for "good". Whenever I meet one I always get that twinge that some sort of game is being played, and any sort of attempt to react to it directly is very easily misconstrued as being unnecessarily combative. I'm sure theyre capable of good for someone, somewhere, but they conduct business in a way that I strongly dislike.
    Why is Te so much more palatable in society as a means of influence than Fe?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #223
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    Okay I have another scenario

    A long tern friend-an ISFJ sits in my office and starts talking about how she will need to get transfusions of IV meds to treat her rhumatoid arthritus. She always talks about this and then pauses waiting for me to say something....

    However her case is very, very mild, and her pain very, very mild.

    From my perspective I would not share this info with others as I would feel like I was seeking self pity. I feel like I have to deal with these things myself and not share. Thus when she does this I feel annoyed as I feel like she is looking for attention. In light of the Fe/Fi, I think I am perceiving her intentions incorrectly.

    What is she looking for me to say and why is she telling me without feeling like an attention whore when she does this?

    Thanks happy Fe's!!
    She is looking for your empathy - a verbal expression of it, and what makes you think you must withhold this from her? You say she is a long-term friend, so presumably you share a certain level of confidence in each other and she is opening up to you for a reason.

    As others have expressed, I am concerned that you make a judgement that her pain and case is mild. How is that relevant to measure out your compassion anyway? A child skins their knee. You still give them a kiss and a band-aid to feel better. It is your expression of empathy at the time of acute fear or pain that does the healing more than anything else.

    Perhaps you require additional information about Rheumatoid Arthritis in order to provide context for what your friend faces. RA is a chronic progressive auto-immune disease that will never go away and has the potential to disable her at some point. Here is more info to help you understand: Understanding Causes and Risks of Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA). And as heart says, she may be frightened by her illness or the idea of IV infusion and just needs to talk about it, to reassure herself or to someone who might be able to reassure her. I get that you feel like you would be imposing on others to discuss such issues, but if you really were burdened by something, would you open to no one?

    You wonder why she doesn't feel like an "attention whore" discussing personal issues - I get you are using this phrase to be a bit provocative, but this would make me inclined to believe one of two scenarios about you: 1.) You have never been seriously ill and actually needed to reach out to others or accept help or 2.) You have been ill and no one paid any particular attention to your needs at that time so you have concluded that you must go it alone. Perhaps her expression of illness makes you want to repel her somewhat as she represents the reality of illness and ultimately our own mortality. Or perhaps you are tired of people in general gravitating to you and abusing your receptivity to listen. I don't know - you tell me.

    But I can tell you that you are making too many assumptions, and even your assumptions are flawed in the level of response you could be providing to this person. I would like to see you amp up the empathy for her. Did you consider that you might be the only person that can bring her some peace of mind on this? You have the power here to help her feel a bit better, so why not?

    Share with me why you feel annoyed to hear about her issues, and I would certainly love to dig deeper on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    It's interesting to see how the answers contrast.

    Ne-Monster (Fi):
    Focuses on how the behavior makes her personally feel. She assumes she correctly empathizes (which she might! we lack all the info), and then figures out what she would do in her friend's shoes. Since her behavior doesn't match her friend's, she grows annoyed.

    Heart (Fi):
    Having experienced similar problems, immediately empathizes with the ISFJ friend as she's been through something similar. She too may or may not be correct. Knowing what her own needs were, and what others did that helped and hurt her, constructs a course of action that she views as helpful.

    Proteanmix (Fe):
    Pays attention to what the person is expressing, but remains unsure of what the motivations are. Avoids making assumptions, and instead develops a test that will help her better interpret the situation. This is what some people can see as manipulative, because she's putting the friend in a situation where the ISFJ can return the favor or do nothing. Based on that, she will have the answer she seeks, and react accordingly.

    Synarch and onemoretime (Tert Fe):
    Simple. When a person complains, they seek sympathy, so give it to them. (There's no need or reason to see deeper into it at this point.)
    Fabulous Udog.

  4. #224
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Why is Te so much more palatable in society as a means of influence than Fe?
    Are you sure it is?

  5. #225
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Are you sure it is?
    I think people accept the use of Te in the corporate environment more so than Fe, for example.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  6. #226
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I think people accept the use of Te in the corporate environment more so than Fe, for example.
    Agreed and well-said. Each tool in the toolbox has a time and place to be used after all. Fe is best used in the business environment when it expresses corporate values, vision and direction. And in the HR context, naturally, wrt personal issues and career development for example.

  7. #227
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Why is Te so much more palatable in society as a means of influence than Fe?
    Te is much easier to read for all types, less intimately tied to our natural selection (humans are social animals, not necessarily organized ones), and much easier to work around if not your particular strong point (there's always a way to beat the system/rules are made to be broken).

    The expression of Fe power is much harder to circumvent without risking personal detriment, as your standing within the community is diminished.

    Of course, this is all assuming we come from a Western, individualistic mindset. A more collectivistic mindset would likely see it as the complete opposite.

  8. #228
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Te is much easier to read for all types, less intimately tied to our natural selection (humans are social animals, not necessarily organized ones), and much easier to work around if not your particular strong point (there's always a way to beat the system/rules are made to be broken).

    The expression of Fe power is much harder to circumvent without risking personal detriment, as your standing within the community is diminished.

    Of course, this is all assuming we come from a Western, individualistic mindset. A more collectivistic mindset would likely see it as the complete opposite.
    Good points. Especially the bolded.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  9. #229
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Why is Te so much more palatable in society as a means of influence than Fe?
    In the US at least the bias might exist because as a culture we value rationality highly, especially given how strongly our roots are tied to the Enlightenment period. If you have a society thats almost innately positivist, Fe and the power that it has is incredibly subversive to that value system. If you admit that a group of people who are so unapologetically subjective might be on to something, then you have to review the very foundation of how the supposedly objective are operating. Uncertainty is bad for progress, which is why as you noted Te is more acceptable in the corporate environment.

    I remember one time I had a discussion with an Fe dominant about lying. Whereupon he--talking purely theoretically, of course --mentioned that truly great liars don't even bother with manipulating the narrative of the sequence of events, but merely cast doubt on the motivation of the actors. That's some chilling shit, and an idea that as a Te-dom would have never even occurred to me. A person to whom that is an innate concept frightens me in a deep, hind brain, "burn it with fire!" kinda way.

  10. #230
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Te is much easier to read for all types, less intimately tied to our natural selection (humans are social animals, not necessarily organized ones), and much easier to work around if not your particular strong point (there's always a way to beat the system/rules are made to be broken).

    The expression of Fe power is much harder to circumvent without risking personal detriment, as your standing within the community is diminished.

    Of course, this is all assuming we come from a Western, individualistic mindset. A more collectivistic mindset would likely see it as the complete opposite.
    +1

    This a thousand times this.

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