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  1. #211
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    I'm hesitant to agree. It seems that if one person "speaks Fe" and another does not, then the perception will be that the other doesn't care.
    I agreed because regardless of Fe responding "well" to another person or not, this is still caring. Fe is never detached.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I agreed because regardless of Fe responding "well" to another person or not, this is still caring. Fe is never detached.
    What I mean is that, if I don't treat him in the same way, he thinks that I don't care.

    Perhaps, in some of us, a "mild" Fe is the vehicle that provokes us to give advice when needed, but we don't have the level of Fe that would cause us to fully involve ourselves in others' lives.

    Unfortunately, when dealing with others, it seems that an agreement on these sorts of expectations is all too important.

  3. #213
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    Okay I have another scenario

    A long tern friend-an ISFJ sits in my office and starts talking about how she will need to get transfusions of IV meds to treat her rhumatoid arthritus. She always talks about this and then pauses waiting for me to say something....

    However her case is very, very mild, and her pain very, very mild.

    From my perspective I would not share this info with others as I would feel like I was seeking self pity. I feel like I have to deal with these things myself and not share. Thus when she does this I feel annoyed as I feel like she is looking for attention. In light of the Fe/Fi, I think I am perceiving her intentions incorrectly.

    What is she looking for me to say and why is she telling me without feeling like an attention whore when she does this?

    Thanks happy Fe's!!
    "Wow, I'm sorry to hear about that"

  4. #214
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    Okay I have another scenario

    A long tern friend-an ISFJ sits in my office and starts talking about how she will need to get transfusions of IV meds to treat her rhumatoid arthritus. She always talks about this and then pauses waiting for me to say something....

    However her case is very, very mild, and her pain very, very mild.

    From my perspective I would not share this info with others as I would feel like I was seeking self pity. I feel like I have to deal with these things myself and not share. Thus when she does this I feel annoyed as I feel like she is looking for attention. In light of the Fe/Fi, I think I am perceiving her intentions incorrectly.

    What is she looking for me to say and why is she telling me without feeling like an attention whore when she does this?

    Thanks happy Fe's!!
    I'm not quite sure what to do with this, I have known people (non-specified type) who have a tendency to do what your friend does.

    In this matter I would try to find a pattern of how it typically goes down. You can't argue with medical facts and the pain they cause; you're not in her body and can only imagine the physical and psychological effects of her condition. What I would do is watch how receptive she is towards other people doing the same thing she does to get a feel of how genuine she is.

    If she meets others' conversation with a genuine attempt to understand, to commiserate, to come up with solutions, to listen, all that good stuff, then I wouldn't necessarily view when she does the same thing to me as attention seeking. If she consistently fails to do those balancing behaviors then I'd take your POV and think she's just attention seeking and looking for pity.

    Other things to consider:
    • She feels comfortable saying this to you, even if she doesn't say it to others
    • Are you her supervisor? She could be saying this to alert you to the same things heart mentioned (slowness in speech and thought, feeling tired during the day, which may lead to lessened productivity)
    • She may just be more detailed in her explanations and what you view as extraneous information may be thoroughness in explanation to her
    • t be her way of sharing with you


    I don't know if these things just complicate your situation even more, but you have more firsthand interaction with her than any of us. I'd go into observatory mode right now and see how she is with others to see if this is normal for her or abnormal.

    Heart's explanation is also something to consider as well.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #215
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    Just wanted to add: She could also be scared of the IV treatments (for whatever reason) or super stressed by their expense and she's just nervously chattering about it. It's not necessarily about wanting to attention whore.

  6. #216
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    It's interesting to see how the answers contrast.

    Ne-Monster (Fi):
    Focuses on how the behavior makes her personally feel. She assumes she correctly empathizes (which she might! we lack all the info), and then figures out what she would do in her friend's shoes. Since her behavior doesn't match her friend's, she grows annoyed.

    Heart (Fi):
    Having experienced similar problems, immediately empathizes with the ISFJ friend as she's been through something similar. She too may or may not be correct. Knowing what her own needs were, and what others did that helped and hurt her, constructs a course of action that she views as helpful.

    Proteanmix (Fe):
    Pays attention to what the person is expressing, but remains unsure of what the motivations are. Avoids making assumptions, and instead develops a test that will help her better interpret the situation. This is what some people can see as manipulative, because she's putting the friend in a situation where the ISFJ can return the favor or do nothing. Based on that, she will have the answer she seeks, and react accordingly.

    Synarch and onemoretime (Tert Fe):
    Simple. When a person complains, they seek sympathy, so give it to them. (There's no need or reason to see deeper into it at this point.)

  7. #217
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Just wanted to add: She could also be scared of the IV treatments (for whatever reason) or super stressed by their expense and she's just nervously chattering about it. It's not necessarily about wanting to attention whore.
    True. Good to remember.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  8. #218
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Synarch and onemoretime (Tert Fe):
    Simple. When a person complains, they seek sympathy, so give it to them. (There's no need or reason to see deeper into it at this point.)
    Hah. Exactly.

    I think my application of feeling makes the most sense to me because it is instrumental.

    I can recognize the expressed need and supply the healing salve of sympathy without presuming to UNDERSTAND (because I can't) and without joining the person in their misery, which might make them feel as if they are putting something on me and therefore more reluctant to express their pain. I can bear their miseries with little effect to myself, which I have found can actually be comforting to people in need. They can feel comfortable complaining to me without worrying that they are adding to my burden and without feeling that they might owe me something if I empathize too closely.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  9. #219
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    It's interesting to see how the answers contrast.

    Ne-Monster (Fi):
    Focuses on how the behavior makes her personally feel. She assumes she correctly empathizes (which she might! we lack all the info), and then figures out what she would do in her friend's shoes. Since her behavior doesn't match her friend's, she grows annoyed.

    Heart (Fi):
    Having experienced similar problems, immediately empathizes with the ISFJ friend as she's been through something similar. She too may or may not be correct. Knowing what her own needs were, and what others did that helped and hurt her, constructs a course of action that she views as helpful.

    Proteanmix (Fe):
    Pays attention to what the person is expressing, but remains unsure of what the motivations are. Avoids making assumptions, and instead develops a test that will help her better interpret the situation. This is what some people can see as manipulative, because she's putting the friend in a situation where the ISFJ can return the favor or do nothing. Based on that, she will have the answer she seeks, and react accordingly.

    Synarch and onemoretime (Tert Fe):
    Simple. When a person complains, they seek sympathy, so give it to them. (There's no need or reason to see deeper into it at this point.)
    Wow, well when you break it down like that, you're right.

    God us help us, we'll never figure each other out if this kind of thing is happening all the time.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #220
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Synarch and onemoretime (Tert Fe):
    Simple. When a person complains, they seek sympathy, so give it to them. (There's no need or reason to see deeper into it at this point.)
    True (a lot of this is social conditioning), but to a point. If they keep complaining and foisting their misfortune upon me, eventually I'll get to where I'll just go ahead and say "I understand that it sucks, but is there something you want me to do about it? If not, quit complaining."

    I realize this is not very sympathetic, but there it is.

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