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  1. #171
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    If they let me go, I'll retreat and lick my wounds, and mull it over. But as soon as the worst is over and I cannot figure out what happened, I will go to my SO who acts like a sounding board on this and rant at him about what happened and how I feel about it..which allows me to sort through things even more. Things I cannot figure out myself, he himself will then address using his Ni+Te. I don't go on a Te rampage without his say-so, unless I can figure Fi out myself and feel justified to do so...and even I sometimes doublecheck to make sure I didn't misunderstand somehow.
    So the idea that you need to retreat and figure out what YOU feel about this still remains, it's just that since you are Ne dom you do it in a different way. So the example would be similar, only different.

    Also, it sounds like you found someone that compliments you wonderfully.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    It was nice, too, because understanding the obligatory nature of Fe made it clear what was going on - she was upset because she was putting so much effort into the relationship, and she didn't feel like he was putting enough, nor was he recognizing how much effort she was putting into it. Of course, it was hard to put into words, since she didn't want to seem ungrateful for what he had done up to this point. Once the idea was out, his Ti made it a lot easier to dissect the issue after the initial reservations.
    Here's the equivilant Fi/Fi exchange.

    I like kids. I really do. But I lack experience around them (single child, none of my close friends have any), so I can be awkward around them sometimes. To play that off, I overcompensate and go humorously overboard when I talk about how evil and devilish the little masterminding spawns are.

    My INFJ friend, who has known me for years, would take my actions near face value. She'd laugh at my jokes, and knew I wasn't quite serious, but was unsure of what I really felt. Since I never told her, she just assumed I genuinely didn't like kids. My INTJ friend, on the other hand, likely recognizing the behavior of over-exaggerating something to hide the actual value, quickly recognized this and was able to call me out on it.

  2. #172
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Okay I give up on my rosetta threads as I lack all functions today it appears and I dont feel they were coherent. I have been up since 2 so blah, yuck, blah.

    Two Fe notes:
    1) My entp and i today talked of what happens to an Fe-dom raised in a really odd enviornment growing up. She said they end up odd, but since they feel the need to be in agreement with thier surroundings, they sort of twist thier local sociatal structure to fit thier oddness. Has enyone seen examples of this?

    2) I found out our PMO manager is an ISFJ. I couldnt understand why things seemed so odd and off kilter. Why his actions seemed passive agressive, yet on the surface didn't. Why he kept road blocking my entps... ISFJ guys have very good poker faces. We are all doomed... Me and my entp have much work to do.

    I'll be back in a week or so hopefully with more brain cells then as I am plain dumb today.

  3. #173
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Well yeah, too many generalisations, it's true. Actually what I was trying for was some kind of simple recipe for Protean in dealing with her boss. Perhaps overreached my theoretical expertise.

    But hey, here's a question: what's the right thing to say about the role of feeling in the life of an INFP manager?

    (And I ask because it totally feels like it's the wrong question to ask, and I'd like an INFP to say so, but I don't know why.)
    I love questions!

    The role of feelings can be tough. I use them to help guide decision making, kind of the gut-feeling whether something is going well or going horribly wrong somewhere. I have also learned to detach some of my personal feelings from the business-oriented environment - meaning, I don't take it personal if someone doesn't agree with me, I try to remain objective at different approaches to communication even if they are not my preference.

    I use a lot of praise in leadership, rather than censure or criticism. I can err on the side of being too accommodating and soft, so I have learned to place milestones that allow people to see for themselves if they are missing targets, and thus, I can discipline according to something objective rather than subjective. Because people generally see me as positive, I cannot simply switch over to be the tough gal and be taken at face value, honestly.

    Hope that helps!

    ---

    I suppose I don't see these functions as being as discrete as everyone wants to pin them down to.

    If I were to hard-boil it to a sentence for each it would be:

    Fi - I feel my feelings so I need to understand them
    Fe - My feelings are real so I need to express them

    Defensive Fi postures arise from a lack of sufficient processing time against the sounding board of the other functions. When forced to explain / justify the initial feelings and express verbally or in words, it can be challenging to pin. Fi gets lost in itself for a while.

    Defensive Fe postures arise from a lack of sufficient or appropriate response to the outer expression of these feelings. I tell you I am angry, why don't you respond, why don't you care? The other functions are quick to justify the initial response and filter reactions.

  4. #174
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Here's the equivilant Fi/Fi exchange.

    I like kids. I really do. But I lack experience around them (single child, none of my close friends have any), so I can be awkward around them sometimes. To play that off, I overcompensate and go humorously overboard when I talk about how evil and devilish the little masterminding spawns are.

    My INFJ friend, who has known me for years, would take my actions near face value. She'd laugh at my jokes, and knew I wasn't quite serious, but was unsure of what I really felt. Since I never told her, she just assumed I genuinely didn't like kids. My INTJ friend, on the other hand, likely recognizing the behavior of over-exaggerating something to hide the actual value, quickly recognized this and was able to call me out on it.
    Yeah, that's interesting. I would likely interpret that as "well, I don't find kids that interesting, either, but I don't begrudge them for that. Guess that person really doesn't like kids. Still, nice to know someone who isn't obsessed with them all the time", never knowing that you actually were fond of kids.

  5. #175
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Fe - My feelings are real so I need to express them

    Defensive Fe postures arise from a lack of sufficient or appropriate response to the outer expression of these feelings. I tell you I am angry, why don't you respond? The other functions are quick to justify the initial response and filter reactions.
    I think you're right, but there may be a shade of difference - I'd say that the defense is not necessarily from a lack of response, but a lack of validation - "I'm having these feelings, and I need to know that you understand why I'm feeling this way", regardless of whether the feelings make any sense. Come at someone in full-blown Fe dominant rage, and no, a hard logical response isn't going to get you anywhere. Letting them know that you understand why they're like that, and they're perfectly justified in feeling this way, though their expression of it is a little selfish, is a much more effective response than just giving attention.

    Fe-dominants are not going to often tell the true reason for their feelings, for fear of rejection by the other person ("you're ungrateful", "you're insane", "that's silly, why didn't you bring it up before?", "you're completely irrational", "that's not true"), and the deepest fear they have - the dissolution of their relationship with that person.

  6. #176
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ Well said, I have amended my lil explanation above to add "why don't you CARE?"

  7. #177
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    See the thing is, which is what I wonder about when people complain about the ExFJs and FJs in their life, is are they taking the 10 things that annoy them about this person and completely blowing it up to be the whole of their being? No one is trying to stop valid criticism. But the noise of I hate it when Fe does this and Fe does that is all you hear. And like I said already, the complaints aren't even original. It's the same old same old.

    About my boss: She has been at my organization for 15 years. If you've been at a place that long, you'll naturally go up the ladder simply by virtue of seniority or being the last man standing. My particular department has been through two turnovers since 2000 (I just started in 2006) and she is the person who's been here the longest and knows the most.

    I think she's a decent person and I can handle both her good and her bad qualities. She is not leadership material and she's not a good supervisor. Does that mean I dislike her as a person? No. I feel like I'm capable of separating her personal attributes from her professional ones. Her professional attributes are nightmarish occasionally, but I don't inflate those things to the whole of her person. It often seems to me that people inflate an FJs negative traits (which every person has) to some twisted caricature of the whole person. And then they give some MBTI cliche positive traits to make up for it and I see very little nuanced criticism of Fi (maybe because the second largest type group on the forum is INFP) to balance the criticism of Fe.

    In this case, to my view, whether or not she is a nice or good person or if you like her on a personal level doesn't seem to factor in. She's a part of your professional life and you have to deal with her on a professional level. It's her professional behavior that causes you stress.

    It seems like she was placed in a job that she wasn't suited for and so how can the people around help but magnify her negative traits? Her negative traits seem directly opposed to her position so they stick out like a sore thumb, it has nothing to do with if she is a nice or good person but that she's not competent and that causes frustration and dysfunction. Your complains about her seem valid and I feel a lot of sympathy for you over it.

    Like I am thinking of an FJ relative. I know she has good traits but her position relative to me places her in a postion where I bear the brunt of her bad traits and the fallout from them without gaining any of the benefit of her good traits, so hence I'm more likely to rant than glorify her. But there's another EFP female relative who displays negative Fi traits and I've ranted about her too. In fact, I won't talk to her anymore.

    BTW, I do see criticism all over this board for INFPs. We're just aimless, whining cry babies who are so selfish, we're boring and we bother people with useless things like values and we all want to return to Disneyland and childhood and we let everyone around us down because we're so self centered.

    By larger point earlier was just to say I realize that I put out shadow vibes that J types can pick up on. I mean, yeah there are people I do avoid or that cringe before I have to deal with them because of their "are you depressed? Are you upset? Are you mad?" type questioning. Like there's this one relative:

    On the phone:

    "Are you depressed?"
    "No, why do you ask?" --- Me
    "Well, you're talking really slow."
    "I had an antihistiamine earlier because I was feeling sick and now I feel pretty tired."
    "Yes, but you always talk so slow."
    "I was raised in Texas." ---- Me, laughing now.
    "So, are you going to tell me what you're depressed about?"
    "I am in a fine mood today, what's going on with you?"
    "Come on, tell me what's going on." Person growing irritated.

  8. #178
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    BTW, I do see criticism all over this board for INFPs. We're just aimless, whining cry babies who are so selfish, we're boring and we bother people with useless things like values and we all want to return to Disneyland and childhood and we let everyone around us down because we're so self centered.
    Agreed LOL!

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    BTW, I do see criticism all over this board for INFPs. We're just aimless, whining cry babies who are so selfish, we're boring and we bother people with useless things like values and we all want to return to Disneyland and childhood and we let everyone around us down because we're so self centered.

  10. #180
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    BTW, I do see criticism all over this board for INFPs. We're just aimless, whining cry babies who are so selfish, we're boring and we bother people with useless things like values and we all want to return to Disneyland and childhood and we let everyone around us down because we're so self centered.
    To be fair, all types are criticized badly. You notice the INFP stuff because that's your type, but I never noticed it. Either way, you're not alone.

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