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  1. #91
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Totally agree with this. I don't think Fi users realize how much silent (oh, because you don't say it out loud you think people don't feel it?) they throw out. And I really choose not to discuss things like this on the forum because even though my chances of getting this from any FP I come into contact with is hovering around the 50/50 range I still fight attributing this to their type. I simply do not feel comfortable slandering FPs in this manner the same way FPs feel comfortable slandering FJs. .
    Dont think of it as slandering. Honesty all around helps others grow. I think there is something very real to Fi-Fe miscommunication across the board from the dom to the tert level so thank you for taking the time to explore openly. Please continue to do so as I really need help on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    In one of my meetings with her we were talking about a particularly difficult grant we were working on and she says, "I just can't do it anymore, my soul is broken." I laughed, thinking she was being sarcastic. Then her eyes widened at me and I was oh, she's serious. She makes these emotionally manipulative volleys about her inner states all the time. I ignore it mostly..
    Yes. I sometimes do this. Reading the above makes me feel terrible. But the question is why. Why does Fi do this when Fe doesn't. I doubt this is intentional planned manipulation. When pushed too far I will do this. Not with manipulation in mind. It really is cry for help? Fi finally boils to the surface and just rolls over? Fi seems to tumble and roll in waves for me and sometimes the waves splash up into the boat and get everyone else wet.

    I have said before that Fi feels like a mirror to me. I mirror what the other person feels. If I feel thier pain I am obliged to help them to make my pain go away. So if I project emo signals of pain and the other party doesn't seem to be mirroring back-perhaps it signals to my brain I need to project more loudly-actually vocalize my discomfort? When in reality Fe may be perceiving discomfort, and trying to help, but the signals the Fe user projects back to me aren't "Fi correct", dont resolve my pain, so I don't perceive them properly? Thus endless cycles of guilt spring up between the two parties, with neiether feeling like thier signal has been properly responded to.

    This same miscommunication with an entp and tert Fe left me kind of heartbroken for awhile as I misunderstood the intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    The other two INFPs: One is a total space cadet. She must be like Halley's Comet, only orbiting the earth every 76 years. I've literally taken to talking about magical dragons coming out of the Potomac river when she comes around and she loves it! BTW, she's my age. She is incapable of having a serious conversation that has any meaning to the participants. Everything must be back-filtered through her. "Well I wouldn't want this..." or "I felt this..." Baby, we're not talking about you. Can you relate to anything without injecting your own subjective experience into it? She makes people uncomfortable talking to her because she personalizes everything and her manner prevents people from really talking about things around her. Once her, myself and two other coworkers were talking about whether or not they liked where tattoos are placed on the body, particularly the tramp stamp. She goes in a small baby voice "Well I have a tramp stamp." Another coworker says, "well just because I don't like the tramp stamp, doesn't mean I think you're a tramp. It's just what they're called." And then she says in that fricking annoying baby voice again "Oh." I'm convinced she does that baby voice to manipulate people from making certain comments she doesn't like. This is the same coworker who when I said my mother had breast cancer she instantly remarked about a pile of folders on the desk, "Those look like a stack of rainbows!" Don't go there about her being immature because I don't think so.
    ..
    Yup. I asked my engineers to build the next instrument out of lemon jello. I created a whole group called the League of Binding Materials and gave them all secret code names involving things like velcro and staples and such. I send them emails telling them the unicorns will be coming to kiss them soon. I call my sales team "my beloved little trolls". By all rights this is crazy and immature.

    Yet I get crazy amounts of shit done and everybody will bend over backwards to help me push things through our systems. They all seem to, well, love me? However there are very few Fe doms around-almost all INTPs, ENTPs, INTJs, ISTJs, with a smatterring of other types sprinkled in.

    Also notice I have brought the entire conversation back to me and my subjective view. I know I do this and when I try not to, the "tap" goes dry. It becomes hard to find words to say. I dont understand why... I am trying to imrpove on this. I cold just be selfish. Perhaps Ne plays a role.

    I also incorrectly perceive that Fe doms are making judgements about me when they make broad sweeping statements. It "feels" like you are judging society at large when you make a statement, thus I can't help but feel like I have failed a societal test of some sort.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I'm really tired of Fis consistently misinterpreting the intentions of FJs. It's like you can't even say anything to Fi users without them thinking you're lying to them or trying to convince them of the sincerity of your remarks.

    Actually that was my final straw with her and I'm thinking about how to cut the strings without her noticing. My conversation around her will become increasingly vacuous and superficial; I'll say trite remarks, make banal jokes, and laugh politely. ..
    My relationship got to this point with the only enfj I spent a lot of time around. I really felt like she initially was constantly insulting me and then finaly we would just not interact except on a very superficial layer. We avoided each other-well until a guy gave her herpes and then I held her while she cried her eyes out.

    I REALLY think there is a true communication issue here. It goes past Fi/Fe trying to manipulate each other. It is very unintentional on both sides. It is about verbal and nonverbal signals being sent and received. It is also about expectations and deliverables that each excepts when the emit/receive those signals. The coding is incorrect and we are not properly perceieving the intent of the sender it seems. Then we respond inaccurately.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post

    I believe she does this because she's not comfortable being in a leadership position, doesn't like to delegate work, but also realizes she can't do the work by herself, but is uncomfortable outright telling someone what to do. She is not a very direct person at all, but hints and insinuates at things she wants done. For the most part, I catch on to her insinuations but she often uses these same tactics when she's upset or in a foul mood.

    So she'll say things like "I'm doing the work of 7 people," and depending on how I feel like responding I'll be silent and wait for her to tell me what she wants to do or say "OK, I'll do XYZ." Or she'll give me a project to do, tell me to do it how I want to do it, and if one piece of the project entails emailing a specific agency with a certain request I'll go to her and ask her is there anything she'd like me to emphasis in the communication. She'll say no no do it the way you like, I send the email, and then she'll send me back a critique of everything I should've said that I didn't. This has happened so many times I can't even count them.

    Would you say this is Fi behaving badly? Is this behavior that supersedes function and type? Because we certainly don't get very much of this on the forum, it's only Fe who gets pinned with this scarlet letter.
    I think that this kind of behavior can transcend type. I don't know why you even assume that it's specifically INFP behavior.



    heart, please don't get offended by this, but I think you're doing exactly what the second INFP I mentioned does. She reroutes impersonal statements to something about herself and construes it as personal when it was never meant as such. There is the feeling of needing to be very careful in how you word things, how you say things, to explain that it was not directed at you specifically. FJs are sensitive to such nuances and respond accordingly. And perhaps, once again, you may be doing the same thing the third INFP did--thinking someone is condemning something about them when there has been no such thought going through the person's mind.

    Maybe this is what FPs pick up on, the delicateness, and they view this as insincere, false, and pandering. Maybe both sides are not clearly seeing the cause and effect of innocent behavior. I'm not sure.

    ROFL! And you're displaying typical J behavior by talking down to her because she's making something personal. INFPs do that. They take broad concepts and relate it to their personal experience.

    This thread is so ridiculous.

  3. #93
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    If it's ridiculous then you can see your way out.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
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  4. #94
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post

    This thread is so ridiculous.
    Ummm... that is not very helpful.

    I actually enjoyed reading this thread.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    If it's ridiculous then you can see your way out.
    The last INFP woman I actually like. I remember I was having a conversation with her when we initially started hanging out, she was talking and I was looking at her. Suddenly she stopped mid-sentence and asked me what I was looking at. I'm totally puzzled and I said I'm looking at her speak. She then says "You're staring at my glasses! I broke my other set and had to wear these. I hate these they make my face look so round and fat!" I'm astonished, I wasn't looking at her glasses, I'm just listening to her. Another time I knew she had been dieting and the results were paying off. I, thinking I'm being encouraging to her and her weight loss efforts say, "I'm really glad you sticking to getting healthy, I would've fallen off the wagon by now!" She tightly said you're just saying that and then I got so mad at her I said, "You're right" and walked out. She later sent me an email apologizing for being so abrupt.

    I'm really tired of Fis consistently misinterpreting the intentions of FJs. It's like you can't even say anything to Fi users without them thinking you're lying to them or trying to convince them of the sincerity of your remarks.

    But it's funny, I also notice with her if you don't say anything to her about her, she'll ask "Do you notice anything different about me?" She'll ask if her roots are showing or pantylines. I feel like she's projecting judgments about herself onto other people, thinking they're condemning her but she's condemning herself. I've noticed this weird self-consciousness with her: Look at me!/Don't look at me! Hello, catch 22. Just this Friday, I was leaving the bathroom when she was coming in and I opened my mouth to say hello and she puts her hand up and says "Look don't say anything about my haircut. The hairdresser cut it wrong." I hadn't even noticed her hair was cut and I said that to her. And don't go throwing around well she's an unhealthy INFP or immature INFP because I don't think she is. I think she's just showing her typical INFPness.

    Actually, this person sounds deeply insecure. I don't think this is "typical INFPness" and I don't think it's very healthy Fe of you to be criticizing her for it. I feel sorry for her. That's SAD.

    That's part of why I think this thread is ridiculous. It largely seems like back and forth bashing.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    You think btw your new avatar has given you the admission to sound wise all out of a sudden ?
    Is that a joke?

    Seriously, though. Plenty of people are insecure like that, especially girls and women who have been abused, or have serious problems with things like eating disorders, body image, etc. I've known quite a few people who are that pathologically insecure that are NOT INFPs. And all INFPs don't act like that, either.

    It's just funny to me because Fe is supposed to care about damaged people, people who are broken emotionally and physically, and this person keeps boasting about Fe whilst bashing people who probably could use a little more love in their lives.

    We all stereotype and generalize on this site, but at least be aware that you're doing it.

  7. #97
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Actually, Fi shows up in my bullshit detectors... funny!
    I imagine there are constructive applications, but in the abstract (and from experience) it strikes me as an awfully solipsistic way to process things: "To hell with reason, to hell with practicality, to hell with you; all that matters is what I happen to be feeling, right now. Now respect that."

    Evidently I've not had a very rounded time with this function. Don't mean to imply that I have! It's just that the above mindset is very difficult for me to deal with.

  8. #98
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Some posts moved here.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  9. #99
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Some posts moved here.
    Why ? I tried to enlighten her Fe !
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #100
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    I was in BevMo tonight (a big, wonderful booze store) and the cashier asked me about the beer I was buying. Well I am sampling it for the first time, so I volunteered to tell her about it next time I was in. She replied that yes, I would have to tell her all about it. She also addressed me by my first name, asked me if she had possibly seen me in the store before, etc. So I wonder what motivates her: does she really want to know some nuances about the beer? Was she bored and making small talk? Did she want to date an ENFP?

    Because of Fi I guess, I take my quest to inform her seriously; I will probably ask another employee if she is working, next time I am there. And when I find her, I think she may be a bit off-put if she was not really interested in the beer.

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