hey Fs, explain how you see morality

[run]

I guess my other question is: What is it like to be F? I know lots of ENFJs who are good at logic, or math, or business or something. One even said that morality was objective. Isn't this the very thing that makes a Thinker a Thinker?

How does an ENFJ arrive at objective morality?

How do have such good values, yet have no logical basis for what you do?

 

[Wiley45]

(Psst. Feelers can think.)

 

[SuperFob]

I know lots of ENFJs who are good at logic, or math, or business or something.

What makes you think someone needs T to be good at math? I've always been laser-fast at mental math (and good at math in general), and my Ti is severely underdeveloped. And of course, there's this INTJ I know who never believed me when I told him that I'm an INFJ. He said that I'm too damn good at math to be an F, and he didn't think it would be possible for an INFJ to be doing better than him.

NF minds don't usually like math, strategy, etc. However, ones who DO focus on those kinds of things can excel at them. The difference is that my thinking style is nowhere near as precise or explainable as that of an NT. My Fe feeds my Ni in a way that the way I solve problems is completely intuitive, with no 'thinking' involved. I don't have any method or set process of going through steps. I just look at problems, let my mind go to work, and get the answers without knowing or being able to explain how I came to them. My thinking process isn't logical, methodical, or explainable. It's based completely on feelings and hunches. And it was good enough for me to end up in special advanced classes doing college-level calculus and physics by the time I was in my sophomore year of high school.

 

[MrME]

How do have such good values, yet have no logical basis for what you do?

How are you able to maintain any relationships if you're a T and you have no ability to feel emotion?

 

[wren]

Presumably I'm a feeler and I was intimidated by math. Noone in my home helped me to be enthusiastic about it either. When I worked elementary math I could always work the solutions except my answers were off by a digit or so. I know this because my mum, the sentimental fool, kept quite a few of my math worksheets we did back then. I'd receive low grades because the answer was incorrect by one digit! Why was I forced to work 40 addition problems anyway, is what I want to know. So, in addition to having little math enthusiasm running rampant around the house, I had boring or bored teachers, teaching me the subject.

Now science I liked. I even liked very simple logic, which intimidated in no time, when people started talking about argument, using debate in high school. Guess I'd never heard about the tenets of debate or maybe I ignored any lesson on that.

Part of being a feeler for me anyway, was the filtering of what I deemed relevant at the time. Everything else escaped me. But when I reflect, I suppose it never escaped me, as of now I'm still looking back, regretting what I did not pay enough attention to.

 

[Sniffles]

NF minds don't usually like math, strategy, etc. However, ones who DO focus on those kinds of things can excel at them.

I can be a case of that, at least in regards to strategy. It's tactics that I'm rather poor at.

 

[Thalassa]

To suggest that Fs have no logical basis for their ethics or values is erroneous.

Not only that, but logic isn't the end-all, be-all, either. Logic is important, but so is caring about how other people (and animals) feel.

I hate Algebra, but I actually excelled at mathematical logic.

Also, Mr.Me makes a very good point.

 

[run]

How are you able to maintain any relationships if you're a T and you have no ability to feel emotion?

That's a question I'm wondering also.

 

[Wiley45]

(Psst. Thinkers can feel.)

 

[Thalassa]

(Psst. Thinkers can feel.)

Is it just me, or are people just missing the irony of him blatantly reversing the stupid stereotype from the OP?

 

[run]

Is it just me, or are people just missing the irony of him blatantly reversing the stupid stereotype from the OP?

I understand it sounds stupid, but I want a reason besides "Thinkers can feel "

 

[Thalassa]

I understand it sounds stupid, but I want a reason besides "Thinkers can feel "

It wasn't a reason. He was mocking you for being an ass.

 

[run]

It wasn't a reason. He was mocking you for being an ass.

sorrrrryyyy

 

[Wiley45]

Hey Run, I'm not good with terms and definitions but in answer to your question ... I think I could be considered a moral relativist.

 

[Jeffster]

Morality is the sum of the beliefs that have formed within me about what is right and wrong and what's important.

 

[run]

I just look at problems, let my mind go to work, and get the answers without knowing or being able to explain how I came to them. My thinking process isn't logical, methodical, or explainable. It's based completely on feelings and hunches.

When I worked elementary math I could always work the solutions except my answers were off by a digit or so.

Interesting.

 

[Thalassa]

I think objective morality is "my rights end where yours begin." That's why things like lying, stealing, cheating, rape, and murder are wrong: they interfere with the instrinsic right of other human beings. Overstepping the bounds, as one might say.

One might then say,"well it's in my rational self interest to (lie or cheat or steal)" but that really isn't rational. It isn't really rational to hurt others unless it's in self-defense. People are social animals, and interdependence tends to be what works best for us. It's in our rational self-interest to extend to others the same behavior with which we would like to be treated. It makes everything easier for everybody.

Morality can be very logical. But it isn't always.

 

[r.a]

fucking with the free will of others is on my bad list

 

[wren]

I guess my other question is: What is it like to be F? I know lots of ENFJs who are good at logic, or math, or business or something. One even said that morality was objective. Isn't this the very thing that makes a Thinker a Thinker?

How does an ENFJ arrive at objective morality?

How do have such good values, yet have no logical basis for what you do?

What does logic have to do with values? Serious question.

 

[Thalassa]

fucking with the free will of others is on my bad list

But the free will of others is far too vague of a term to leave alone. People could have the "free will" to go around molesting children or shooting people at McDonald's. I'm certainly going to fuck with that.

That can even be extended to less directly but still obviously harmful behaviors, like smoking cigarettes in a closed public room with non-smokers, etc.