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  1. #11
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    I suppose it is possible to have a Te = Ne = Si = Ni type, it'd be pretty screwed up, you'd run into strange impossibles and probably contradict yourself constantly. The chances of you running into anyone who has the same dilemma as you do are pretty slim
    Quite the contrary.
    I come across people all the time with the same complaint about MBTI.

    First of all, the order begins Te-Ni-Si, not Te-Ne.
    Second, it's called synthesis, not contradiction.
    For you not to know many people score in the center when it comes to S and N,
    tells me you don't know much about MBTI results at all.
    It's called balance.
    When using percentages rather than functions,
    I frequently score close to 50-50.

    IMO, you actually have it backwards.
    To be so extremely unbalanced from the center,
    is like an overweight see-saw that just hit the ground.
    Jung espoused the ability to use all functions.

    Jungian analysts, Singer and Loomis, debunked MBTI years ago.
    They proved any order is possible and there are literally thousands of types.
    Only the most gullible would actually believe with almost 7 billion people,
    there are only 16.

    If you think any function order other than what MBTI tells you means something is "wrong,"
    that tells me MBTI has brainwashed you pretty well.

    Of all the functions, I see Ne and Ni repeatedly being well-developed in the same person. I'm no exception.
    Again, you should already know this if you have seen a large number of results.

    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    there is such thing as a smart 15 year old, not to mention, they have to learn somehow, why not teach the young-uns aye?
    Sure there is. Disney Geek is 15. She's a great kid.

    The other 15-year-old does nothing in this forum but behave like a spoiled little troll.

  2. #12
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Quite the contrary.
    I come across people all the time with the same complaint about MBTI.

    First of all, the order begins Te-Ni-Si, not Te-Ne.
    Second, it's called synthesis, not contradiction.
    For you not to know many people score in the center when it comes to S and N,
    tells me you don't know much about MBTI results at all.
    It's called balance.
    When using percentages rather than functions,
    I frequently score close to 50-50.

    IMO, you actually have it backwards.
    To be so extremely unbalanced from the center,
    is like an overweight see-saw that just hit the ground.
    Jung espoused the ability to use all functions.

    Jungian analysts, Singer and Loomis, debunked MBTI years ago.
    They proved any order is possible and there are literally thousands of types.
    Only the most gullible would actually believe with almost 7 billion people,
    there are only 16.

    If you think any function order other than what MBTI tells you means something is "wrong,"
    that tells me MBTI has brainwashed you pretty well.

    Of all the functions, I see Ne and Ni repeatedly being well-developed in the same person. I'm no exception.
    Again, you should already know this if you have seen a large number of results.
    It's quite normal for an EJ to be balanced on the N/S scale (according to socionics it is anyway), the reason is that Te/Fe is dominant, which means that the other functions have less influence and are more difficult to filter off.

    Of course there are people out there with different variations, you'd have to be thick not to think that there are, there are also different levels of balance in the 16 types that are present, one ENTP could be incredibly different to another due to small difference in preference (and also due to non-MBTI related qualities, which there are quite a lot of), but there are more people out there with at least two functions that belong to a type, you can stand back, and identify the most distinct people of those types, you can approximate their types based on logical predictions and pair that with a quick check to see if it lines up with reality. It's not an entirely perfect system that caters for the 15 billion other types that exist out there, it's just a loose categorization. I suspect that a lot of people are placing to much importance on MBTI...
    5 3 9

  3. #13
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    I hope you don't mind me jumping in here and asking a question.
    So i have been looking at these letters people keep on talking about.
    So for me apparently i am Fe, Si, Ne, Ti.

    I just googled function order but i couldn't find out if the above is important and what exactly it mean.

    Maybe i am having a blonde moment, is this something i should be looking at.

    Would someone just tell me quickly if you have a moment, what this is about. Even better, give me a link so i can read it in my own time and preferably one that isn't overly complicated. Yes i know i am a pain in the ass, but there is nothing wrong in asking questions.






    Quote Originally Posted by hommefatal View Post

    Right. I meant I know through the type you know which traits they may have so it's easier to find interesting people.

    Oh darling, meet your potential new friends then type them after some time. A type that you may think you wouldn't usually get along with, well you may just surprise yourself. What do you have to lose anyway

  4. #14
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    I hope you don't mind me jumping in here and asking a question.
    So i have been looking at these letters people keep on talking about.
    So for me apparently i am Fe, Si, Ne, Ti.

    I just googled function order but i couldn't find out if the above is important and what exactly it mean.

    Maybe i am having a blonde moment, is this something i should be looking at.

    Would someone just tell me quickly if you have a moment, what this is about. Even better, give me a link so i can read it in my own time and preferably one that isn't overly complicated. Yes i know i am a pain in the ass, but there is nothing wrong in asking questions.
    First apologies for the messiness - I've provided gaps to show how it works in linear order.

    Here's a diagram showing the function orders for all.
    http://www.lifewatch-eap.com/images/...typechart2.jpg

    A basic idea of what it all means.
    _________________________________

    Fe is dominant - This means you prefer and will most likely use it the most.

    Si is secondary - This is second most prefered function. Si is an observing based function, so the information you pick up gets gets relayed to your first function to make decisions. It's why it's also known somewhat as a backup function.

    For an ISFJ - According to theory: We are more likely to be focused on just collecting data (Si) as a dominant function, and not so much acting with it.
    __________________________________________________ _________

    Right first two sorted out. MBTI claims that our weakest function would be the opposite of our strongest one. The opposite of Fe is Ti. That's the reason that Ti is shown in the last position there.

    So now we have:

    Fe Si [Missing Gap] Ti
    _____________________

    To fill in that gap - It just does the opposite of Si (second function) which is Ne.

    Theories claim that your third function is the one that you develop over time as you mature, and that it gets used when someone is faced with a problem but can't use their top two preffered functions.

    _________________________________________

    Everybody uses all functions, however those are meant to be important ones according to MBTI theory. You'll find that people have varying orders though in real life - for most ESFJs it'll go something like this.

    Fe - Number 1! YEAH!
    Si - Number 2 - Sidekick.

    Ne - Anywhere between number 3-7, more likely to be around 4-6.

    Ti - Should be position 8th, however it can vary so we'll go with 7-8.

    Fi, Se, Ni and Te is scattered within number 3 and 7 and will vary depending on the person and their upbringing etc.

    There we go

    Here's a basic description of all the functions and what they are meant to be like:
    Using the Eight Functions to Prepare and Give MBTI
    However it might be useful to look around threads here to get it from a more personal perspective.

  5. #15
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    For an ISFJ - According to theory: We are more likely to be focused on just collecting data (Si) as a dominant function, and not so much acting with it.
    But for an ISFJ, aren't you using Si with Fe? So you do have some use for the primary Si. Like for an ISTJ, we use Si with Te, so we do act with the Si.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Right first two sorted out. MBTI claims that our weakest function would be the opposite of our strongest one. The opposite of Fe is Ti. That's the reason that Ti is shown in the last position there.
    But isn't Te the opposite of Fe? That's why those with primary Fe have 8th-place Te?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Theories claim that your third function is the one that you develop over time as you mature, and that it gets used when someone is faced with a problem but can't use their top two preffered functions.
    But what if you have a strange order of functions, like..

    Fe > Ti > Fi

    Will this person use Fe with Ti? And will Fi still be used as the third function when Fe and Ti don't work (even though this is not the conventional function order)? Thanks.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    But for an ISFJ, aren't you using Si with Fe? So you do have some use for the primary Si. Like for an ISTJ, we use Si with Te, so we do act with the Si.
    The Si collects data to be used by the Fe. Therefore I am using information to act, however it's not the primary focus. It's the reason that there are also claims that ISJs are more focused on building their internal world, where ESJs more focused on creating their external world.

    But isn't Te the opposite of Fe? That's why those with primary Fe have 8th-place Te?
    Nope. The reversal of extraverted feeling is introverted thinking.

    But what if you have a strange order of functions, like..

    Fe > Ti > Fi

    Will this person use Fe with Ti? And will Fi still be used as the third function when Fe and Ti don't work (even though this is not the conventional function order)? Thanks.
    You're unlikely to find someone that has that function order set up. There should be a perceiving function within there somewhere. Throw in an extra Si and that order actually describes me perfectly. My function order:

    Si > Fe = Ti > Fi > Ni = Te > Se > Ne

    It's not going to be accurate since it's only an estimate but that order describes me rather well. By observing someone elses function order, you can actually learn alot. The difference in preference actually gives alot of information on how someone acts, this is of course assuming that the individual has guessed their order reasonably correct.

    Usually in most case the first two functions will be assigned to a perceiving function, and a judgement function. Afterwards it's open game for the rest to kick in. Personally I don't know whether it's true that a person will move to their tertiary function if the dominant and auxillary fail. Nobody knows for sure, it's just what theory says. I'm more inclined to think that people don't really stop using their functions, they just look to other functions to help with their existing preferences. A combination leading to more insight.

    Just have a look at the function thread:
    You'll get a few odd cases but most people this basic open plan pattern. There's also the issue of determining function order whether it's based on preference or usage.

  7. #17
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    I just treat MBTI categories like fuzzy sets. That pretty much resolves most of the gripes that I'd have about it otherwise.

  8. #18
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Jungian analysts, Singer and Loomis, debunked MBTI years ago.
    Source?
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  9. #19
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Above all, it has been useful for self-development for me. It also provided this necessary sense of belonging that I needed when I first learned about it.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Kai ...

    You are an absolute sweetheart for taking the time to explain that. Thank you ever so much, it is appreciated.

    I'll take a look at the website and hopefully it will click in place.

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